Which is very unfortunate

Maybe there will be an OSO (oscuros skyrim overhaul) I think his name was oscuro anyway...

But I agree, lvl scaling is kinda lame.

bandits wearing high end armor that is supposed to be rare - EPIC FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


WHY BETHESDA WHY

Hey idiot morrowind and fallout new Vegas had level scaling. Get your facts straight

Also I'm level 30 and bandits still have crap armor. You still run into low levels creatures and at low levels there are still creatures and dungeons that are neigh impossible. Skyrim level scaling is much improved over oblivion. It's more like new Vegas and fallout 3

Probably not. He popped into the modding forum the other day; said that Skyrim didn't need an overhaul in his opinion.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1284625-ooo/page__view__findpost__p__19390041

edit: wow, I'm a on a roll...2 posts, both at the bottom of pages. Throw this post away as well! :rofl:

Hey idiot. Morrowind didn't.

have you seen bandits in skyrim wearing anything higher than nordic steel?

I went from dying in 2 hits from most enemies, to now at level 45 being able to pretty much one-shot anything but dragons and deathlords. I think some of you are just doing something horribly, horribly wrong if you think mobs are scaling with you.

actually it did, just to a very small degree

I've seen them in Scaled, Plate, and some other mid range armor. Regular Bandits I haven't seen any that were higher then Leather.


That might be some of the issue although some of the enemies can kill you in one hit if you aren't careful. Briarhearts come to mind as enemies that can kill you in one hit, makes me want to Rage just thinking about it.

Gear is still scaled to you.

Oh really? I played it not that long ago and I remember higher level enemies showing up on roads and stuff when I gOt higher level. What do you call that? It didn't have loot scaling. Also morrowind everyone complained about how it was too hard at low levels and to easy at high levels. Now people like you are complaining about the solution. In conclusion it's here to stay. It sells more games (fact) and it makes for a better experience if done right like in skyrim, new Vegas, and fallout 3. If you don't like it , I suggest avoiding future Bethesda games.

Also Oscuros overhaul had level scaling. In fact te level scaling in his mod was quite similar to skyrim. Why do you think he said it doesn't need an overhaul. You whiners never stop and I can't wait till you stop playing elder scrolls and let the series move on.

I feel I need to correct the self proclaimed "grammar activist". There is nothing, I repeat, nothing wrong with starting a sentence with a conjuncture. This is some nonsense myth perpetuated by English teachers giving their students over simplified rules. Much the same reason that "I" and "me" are used incorrectly by so many people. It annoys me when people incorrectly correct other peoples grammar... :facepalm: Might not make for the most elegant writing, but there is nothing grammatically wrong with it.

As for the thread, I enjoy the Skyrim level scaling. It's better than Morrowind or Oblivion.

randomized loot is, to some extent, but there are still static item placements, quest items, and don't forget a whole crafting system that could let you have full dragonplate pretty early if you work it right.

There should be a limited scaling.

Some mobs (say bosses?) should scale to your level (with some discount, say you gain 5 level, they gain 3/4 something, or that they are at minimum -3 level compared to you?)

Full scaling is bad due to the non-combat skills counts in the level. Like 100 or even 3000 in *speech* will not help you take a down a mob in anyway. May be they should just leave the non-combat related skills outside of the actual leveling. (but that would somewhat mess up their perks system I guess... )

Or they can have a system with a combination of all the above.

1) adjust base on level (either a factor or say + / - level of character)
2) there's a minimum / max level of mobs can be.
3) calculate mobs level take into account the actual "combat" oriented levels. (say armor / weapons / spells...etc..)

So, the general result should be
1) game gets easier* as you level up.
2) not overly easy due to level - floor implemented (say boss mobs can at most -3 *combat* level of your character, while ice wolf can be -10 level?)
3) encourage player to max their non-combat related skills, as they don't count in mob difficulty level, but does help the character a little (if just for a few mp / hp ups)

Problem solve. They need to hire me, Rawr~~ :whistling:

And I cant wait till people go back to your holes and stop brushing everyone's complaints off as mere whining like an arrogant ass. The series is moving backwards in some areas anyways.

Level scaling seems a lot like a Stamina System (Can only play the game until the "Stamina" runs out, then must wait until tomorrow), as in a system a lot of people hate, yet still gets include over and over again.

Look, let's go back to what a good game offers a player:

a) a challenge. if its too easy, you don't get the same satisfaction as hours go by as when you feel you had to work, and accomplished something after a few tries.
B) a reward. the loot at the end, or a quest-completed, etc.

But here is what is important : rewards should scale with the challenge, but challenges and thus rewards SHOULD NOT SCALE TO THE PLAYER, in a great game.

And to me the simplest way to imagine it is, indeed, that there /should be/ somewhere in the world of an open world game, a place that is waiting for you with a GIGANTIC reward. That reward is behind a GIGANTIC challenge. But NOTHING should stop you from taking on that challenge ANY TIME. (so that challenge must NOT scale). This allows somebody with enough dedication (or luck, or cheat if they choose to ruin their own single player gaming experience) to OBTAIN said item.

At some point I also do believe an open world game SHOULD indeed allow you to say "dear player, you have just become so awesomely powerful (cuz you lucked out and got Uber Weapon of Uberness early on, or earned it after 100 hours of play) that now indeed everything is as it would be if you were just at the top of the food chain.

Look, if you take a path that leads you to "you are now god, enjoy killing everyone"... guess what... the game didnt just fail you... YOU JUST REACHED THE END OF IT.

And the great thing? This isn't real life... it's a game, so you can always RE-START IT. Now take another path, another game play style.


So. What do I conclude?

Hide loot proportional to the challenge, to avoid complete luck deciding that someone suddenly 'becomes god' in a game (the same reason to make sure that the chances of Uber loot is very very small, although I think it should be non-zero). Don't sweat the exploiters and cheaters, that's their decision and while I agree it is a terrible choice to make... it is theirs (I kinda ruined oblivion when I found/stole quick tons of reloads glass armor early on, but then again I just found it by accident and I felt like I had earned it...).

Have areas of the world determined by the designers and fix them. TBH, in practice they might want to scale them within a small range (to allow tolerance for "level 10-15" to reflect various player styles).

Ensure that you do not suddenly eliminate "easy challenges", the player always should have a sense that somewhere, against some enemy, he has earned the right to just crush them (think: there should always be a stupid rat you can just squash, as a reminder of where you are)

Finally, a clever trick games can play is things like:

"Congrats, you just found Uber Sword of Uberness, but guess what, you need Health > 200 AND Stamina > 210 AND Level >10". That doesnt take away the reward, and on the contrary gives the player a reason to say "jee I better level up so I can use this awesome thing I found so early on!"

All in all, Skyrim so far I think is doing a pretty decent job. I am suffering from a moment of '[censored] everything is getting harder' now, but in fairness levels 1 to 15 felt well balanced...

Everyobe forgets so quickly the complaints of morrowind. Grass is always greener on the other side. You guys can continue to whine about level scaling but it's not going to change anything. On order to have a truly open world game , level scaling to some degree is needed. Loot scaling on the other hand doesn't need to be included and I could see them coming up with a better system for that.
To the guy above me, pleaaaase don't suggest requirements for weapons. Bethesda is moving away from the numbers game with their RPGs. That is a horrible idea.

The game would not work without it. That's why Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout: NV all had it.

Loot scaling was a terrible decision but at least it isn't as bad as Oblivion and thankfully not everything is loot scaled.

I like how no one even acknowledged this guy's post and just continued with the "LEVEL SCALING svckS" tirade that they started on. The fact is, level scaling in Skyrim is done very well compared to say Oblivion. It might sound great to say "get rid of all level scaling!" but think about what that really means, it means that the game can no longer be a completely open world where you can "do what you want when you want". With absolutely zero level scaling, the game becomes completely linear with areas ABC and being for levels 1-15, DEF for 16-30, and so on and so forth.

Skyrim really does level scaling perfectly. It doesn't make bandits unstoppable like Oblivion did, but it also makes it so players are free to do whatever quests they want to in whatever order they feel like (within reason, frost trolls and giants will wreck you at low levels, as they should).

Really, out of all the complaints there are to be made about this game, I think the level scaling is almost perfect in this game, with my only complaint being dragons becoming a bit too easy later in the game.

I think daggerfall had it too

You'll just have to get over it.

Yes yes yes to the guy saying how skyrims scaling is different from oblivion. Every time I read one of these threads half the complaints don't even apply to skyrim. People are still butthurt over oblivion and haven't even have skyrim a chance.