It has a lot to do with the fact that people don't understand what they are talking about. It doesn't make sense to be afraid of something just because some other people are complaining about it.

I have nothing to do with Steam, I've never spoken to anyone other than support, and I have nothing at stake for promoting it or chastising it. The only reason I take the time to defend Steam is because I hate to watch people avoid something for reasons that don't actually exist.

I could care less whether you like steam or not, I just don't like watching people hate it because of some false or incomplete information. This is a basic philosophy behind every post I make on every forum I'm a member of. If you look at my posting history, you find me defending just about anything that I think people are misunderstanding.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely that Steam has sleeper affiliates that are regular members and posters on every major gaming board that just wait around for Steam topics to come up so that they can defend it. That's just not very effective or efficient. The vast majority of the people that defend Steam are just regular members that want to defend it.

People that are affiliated with Steam are usually fairly obvious, and would be obligated to be straightforward about their affiliation with the company, and might even be required by law to mention their affiliation every time they plug the product.

I really doubt that anyone in this thread is affiliated with Valve or Steam.

Steam DRM confirmed I believe. I like steam, and I'm fine with that. Steam is great.

It is this kind of knee-jerk defensiveness regarding Steam--and blanket dismissal of critics of Steam as opposing it "for reasons that don't actually exist"--that helps substantiate my larger point. And I would actually be surprised if Steam PR people did not browse and post in threads such as this one. Valve has everything to gain from publicly and frequently making the case for why Skyrim should be a Steam game. They have a lot of potential profit (millions?) riding on it.

I swear this is one of the most [censored] things i have ever seen in my life.

Steam does not collect personal information, they cannot access your computer, they cant check on what your doing.

Knee-jerk defensiveness and blanket dismissal?

If by "knee-jerk defensiveness" you are referring to the fact that I don't want you insinuating that I'm somehow affiliated with a company when I'm not, then I suppose so? By suggesting that I might be affiliated with steam you are reducing any credibility in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1199833-do-we-have-any-news-on-what-type-of-drm-skyrim-will-use/page__view__findpost__p__17873211 that I sat there and took nearly an hour of my own time to write for no other reason than to try an help people understand what they are dealing with.

If you can call me defensive then it is quite a bit more fair to say that you are openly and irrationally hostile.


On your other point, I hardly think that huge and extensive post I made can be called a "blanket dismissal." I know what I'm talking about and I took a great deal of time to lay things out. At no point did I simply ignore or dismiss anyone's concerns. What I did do, however, was mention every single concern that I could find and then explain exactly what was causing it and how it really works.

That is anything but a dismissal. You, however, are not offering any sort of debate on the issues or merits here, just empty implied accusations. If you have something more substantial, or any real reason to think that I'm just "dismissing" the issues, I invite you to discuss it.

So if I'm defensive, it's only a reaction to your aggression. And I'm certainly not dismissing anything, but even if I were, you would be much more guilty of it than I.

EDIT:
Please don't read this as an insult. I respect your opinion a lot. I just don't want you insulting me, either. I am willing and looking forward to a amicable discussion with you.

Ever looked at their stats about what hardware/OS/etc their users are using? Yeah, they peaked at everyone using the Steam client to get that info.

All of those were OPT-IN surveys that you can deny to take. I know i just denied taking one yesterday.

Those are all voluntary.

Not to worry, Varus. I am quite used to the defensive, occasionally crude tone of your kind of advocacy of Steam. As I said earlier, it fits a familiar Steam PR/sales pitch that I've seen all over the internet. I'm personally not invested enough in Steam-related arguments to bicker with you about why you like Steam or why I detest it. Nor am I offended by the comments of random people on the internet, corporate shills or not.

Are you ever polite?

Also, I just noticed that http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&mid=26943 is a Steam bash. You have an almost flawless track record of hunting down Steam threads just to post a negative comment in them. At first I thought it was hard to believe that you honestly thought someone might float around just to promote Steam. Now I realize that you float around just to demote it, so it's not such a surprise you would think someone did the same thing on the other side. Just for the record, that's not me.

Makes me wonder if you might be affiliated with someone. Maybe not a competitor... who though?

I would like this.

My dislike of Steam is well known around here, for reasons elaborated upon in previous posts and not unlike the objections of others in this thread. And please don't send me any more unsolicited PMs. I find it unnecessary...and creepy.

PMs are for discussing things that don't belong in the thread, which is exactly why I sent you one asking you to stop acting so rudely. There's nothing "creepy" about it, but since you asked I can respect your particular phobia.




Here's a quote so people can see just how "creepy" I was.

I think we are done though, since your distaste for Steam borders more on religious than logical. It's impossible to convince a religious fanatic of anything, so I don't know what else there is to say, really.

I can see why you would need to deny it though.

That may be the longest response ever on this forum

p.s are you sure you don't work for them in any way?

Ive seen far longer on other forums about why steam is so evil, does that mean those people work for companies that are competing with Steam? no. and the same is true vise versa

http://www.law.fsu.edu/prospective_students/ambassadors.html. I have no job whatsoever right now

I promise, completely unaffiliated with Steam or Valve or any such other company. My picture is actually on that page somewhere if you can guess which one!

I love steam. Great game service. Other people recognize this so they do business with them. I would like my elder scrolls to be able to run independent of steam just so that the game files and folders are simpler to get to (less clicks) but I run Morrowind through steam and it works just fine . Mods and all. Steam really isn't that bad. It's actually quite good.

/end opinion that others will disagree with.

I have the physical version of New Vegas and had to register with Steam.
But it has not been a problem. I play and save games in offline mode all the time.

This whole idea of accusing people of being corporate shills is one of the most cowardly ways to argue I've ever heard. Instead of debating Varus's points, you accuse him of being a liar or a paid promoter of steam. It's nothing more than a personal attack on someone because you don't want to/can't refute his points. Even if he was employed by Valve to promote steam, his points are still valid.

Debate the issue at hand. Don't simply accuse someone of being in Valve's pocket and insinuate that they are a liar when they deny it. If you refuse to debate the issue, you're only weakening you side of the argument and making all anti-steam posters look like a bunch of paranoid jerks.

As for the issue at hand: Steam is voluntary. If you don't like it, don't use it. It doesn't simply install itself on your computer secretly, you have to do that. When you use Steam, you consent to the loss of a miniscule amount of privacy in exchange for convenience, but nobody can force it on you.

Yep. CD Projekt knows this well. Witcher 2 had DRM on it for the first 2 weeks, then patch 1.1 took it out. The company said the DRM did the job they wanted it to do, and saw no reason to leave it in place after that.

More companies need to follow this example. It worked for them, and they're making money hand over fist. And on a PC centered release to boot.


Yep, I feel your pain there. Steam stopped me from getting F:NV but I'm likely to cave in for Skyrim if they tie it in.

This is of course what Valve counts on in their monopolistic march. That some major title everyone wants will tie themselves to it, and artificially inflate their numbers so they can claim they now have 50 million willing gamers using it, when I'm fairly confident less than half came on board WILLINGLY. Remove the forced Steam tie-ins and I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have bothered to begin with.

Steam is the most accessible DRM there is and they don't restrict you anywhere near like others do.

And the fear about them shutting it down some day or take away your ability to play your old games is just paranoid because there is no evidence on this and probably won't be in the future.

One small problem, if Skyrim uses Steam as it's DRM you won't be able to play the game without it. I don't have a problem with people using Steam but it should be optional for those that just want to play the game and not have to worry about a 3rd party being in control of it.

It's gonna be an offline game, optionally registrable on GFWL.

THANK YOU!
Seriously the purposeful spread of misinformation/conspiracy theories about steam was ridiculous. It's one thing to not like another to bash it citing things that are completely untrue.

Welcome to the forums.