It actually does. I don't like Morrowind, I hate Oblivion, tough. The majority likes tyem because they play to western sensiblities of of what a fantasy world sjould be. [censored] it.

Yes, but again, quality in your eyes

Can't you Morrowind fans just cheer up? All you've done since Skyrim was announce is complain and moan and bawww about the prospect of it being 'as bad of Oblivion'

I'll carry on being excited about the announcement, you guys keep being miserable and making petitions on the forums to get things changed in a game that is supposedly almost finished

Whatever works

Oh, true, I suppose it has quality in the same way Justin Bieber is quality in the eyes of his fans.

Also, Morrowind didn't exactly live up to the roleplaying awesomeness that was Daggerfall, but it was closer than Oblivion was.

Yes, it does. It's called fans liking the product. Magical, isn't it?

Oh, true, I suppose I can see how many the average Joe gamer would find Oblivion appealing for the fact that you can complete the game with extreme ease at level 1. (And yes, I tested it.)

Ah I suppose you're right. I guess I'm just not as hardcoe a gamer as you

I have brought shame upon my family

Oh, true, I suppose you have, then.

To learn a lesson, you have to be punished, and in this case, they were positively reinforced; but everyone agrees nontheless, and from what I've seen in interviews from Todd Howard and other developers from Bethesda, they are very much aware that Morrowind had a deeper sense of culture and fantasy, one of the reasons they decided to make the Shivering Isles.

Then the "overwhelming majority" is made up of morons. The majority is not always right.

Anyway, as far as having "learned the lesson of Oblivion", I think they probably have. I honestly never played Morrowind but I can believe people when they talk about how much more "cultured" it was compared to Oblivion. I loved Oblivion as much as the next guy but it did seem to be missing something, a certain sense of life and authenticity. I can't really compare the two thoroughly but I'm sure they'll take what worked best from each of them and somehow incorporate them into Skyrim while improving a whole lot of other stuff.

Also: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1151903-skyrim-will-have-a-more-unique-sense-of-culture-than-oblivion-had/

This. It is important for them that their games make money and, although it shouldn't have, Oblivion made much more than Morrowind. I'd say they'll probably keep going in Oblivion's direction but I do think they'll fix the problem with leveled creatures.

I think it's interesting so many people seem to forget that Bethesda made Fallout 3 after Oblivion. Anyone who played Fallout 3 would easily say "yes, they learned their lesson from Oblivion and improved upon a few weak spots", just like how they improved on several weak spots of Morrowind with Oblivion.

In Fallout 3 the level scaling had been tweaked, quests offered more solutions, the speech skill mattered more, the characters had more interesting things to say and the towns were more alive with kids running around and stuff, just to mention a couple of things.

The question should rather be "did they learn their lesson from Fallout 3"?

Yeah. :laugh: Like winning awards means anything, basically every AAA Company wins awards and gets very high reviews and what not today.

And although I have no concrete proof of this, I would bet that the majority of sales of Oblivion came from gamers who don't really play RPGS, if the multitude forums I frequent are a good representation of this. They wouldn't know what Arcanum, Planescape, Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Diablo, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights (etc..) are, but they heard of and played Oblivion. This was one of my problems really, because those people have no idea what constituents a good RPG, and people who have a history of playing RPGs have a much more informed opinion on this matter. Simples.

And I don't see how Morrowind wasn't user friendly. I played and finished the game when I was 12, it was very easy to get into. I don't get you guys. Now Flight Simulator is something else...

But I'm rambling now, this is off-topic.

THIS!!!

@Doedel:

You have no right to speak for everyone... Oblivion was my first game in the Elder Scrolls series. I consider it my all time favorite game. I loved Oblivion so much that I spent two weeks tracking down an old used copy of the Morrowind GOTY for the Xbox. I could only play it for about an hour. The outdated graphics and gameplay just hampered my experience too much. I like to think that if I got it when it first came out I would have been a huge fan... Anyway, I'm starting to rant. My point is that although you like Morrowind better, that's certainly not the case for everyone. In fact, if you were to venture outside these forums and somehow sample the entire gaming population, I'm sure the majority of people would either say the preferred Oblivion to Morrowind or that they loved Oblivion but never played Morrowind. I'm not trying to start a flame war here... I'm simply pointing out that Oblivion was an amazing game and was extremely successful, both financially and critically.

Could it be that they're winning awards because they're AAA companies? They became AAA companies by getting off their backsides and doing some work, even if you don't like the end product, many people still find it enjoyable and at the end of the day, that's WHY game developers make games; to create something that can entertain people, then charge them for it's use. But I digress.

I think people need to stop looking at Oblivion as a failed Morrowind 2.0, and look at it as it's own game; as Oblivion. Was Morrowind better? In some aspects, yes. But Oblivion had numerous redeeming qualities; the seemless change between hitting things with your sword and zapping them with lightning, manual control over blocking, a distant land feature, less static combat etc. If you're one of the people that prefer Morrowind, and consider Oblivion to have failed miserably or what have you, just try this for me. Pretend Morrowind doesn't exist (hard, I know, I have trouble ignoring good games too). Ok, done that? Good. Now, if you have a copy of Oblivion lying around, pick it up and put it in your PC/360/PS3. Pretend you've never played it before, this is the first time ever. Now as you play, ask yourself: Is this a bad RPG? I'll answer for you; "**** no, this is pretty awsome!"

And I'd also like to point out that compared to the other provinces of Tamriel, Oblivion's culture is unique. Sure it does draw inspiration from real life, but I think it's safe to say that Morrowind did in some aspects, and the future ES games will to. If you want the ES games to be 100% fictional without a trace of real world inspiration, you should be prepared to loose all of the playable races thusfar, with the exception of the mer (orcs are included). Why? Imperials, Redguards, Bretons and Nords are quite clearly based off of us, Humans. Khajiits are based of cats, likewise Argonians are some form of lizard. Besides, the real world isn't THAT bland, we're just used to it is all, have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socotra (there aren't many picture on that page, but there's quite alot of information, just gogle search it to get more pictures) and tell me that if one day, you randomly woke up there, you first reaction wouldn't be "Holy [censored] I'm in [insert TES province here]!"

/rant

The majority brings in the most money.


This, pretty much. I've been much more optimistic about TES V since I've played Fallout 3.

We have light sabers now

Hmm.. They made a game that I've been playing for 4 years and have yet to get bored of. A game where, my only real big complaint with it is the whole "leveling of items/enemies" crap. I think they're doing just fine. And as long as they change the leveling system, Skyrim should keep me hooked for another 4 years, no problem!

I actually find it very arrogant to talk about Bethesda having "learned a lesson". It reminds me of how you speak to five year olds. "So, little Jim - have you learned your lesson now?" The hate and ranting towards Oblivion is getting ridicolous, and I have to admit it is partly ruining this forum for me. This has gone from constructive criticism to flat out annoying whining a long time ago. And even though I can't speak for Bethesda, I know that I would not listen much to arrogant whining.

I think all TES-games (the ones I've tried, being DF, MW and OB) are great, in their own rights. I don't complain about Morrowind not being like Oblivion, or Oblivion not being like Morrowind. I enjoy them equally (actually, I enjoy Oblivion a little bit more) for what they are. One can always comment on bigger or smaller faults that could have been changed, and I am quite sure Bethesda listens to it. But not four years of whining, with a "So. Have you learned your lesson now, Bethesda?" at the end of it. That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

And had a bad story and bad dialogue, just to name a couple of things. "Bad story" mainly because it was unoriginal; it was really just a mashup and rehash of FO1's and FO2's plots, no creativity shown at all. "Bad dialogue" because:

Fortunately FONV was more than enough to take that bad taste out of my mouth. Except that wasn't developed by Bethesda.

Please read some comments and look at the votes in this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1140495&st=

The majority here likes Morrowind better. Oblivion got pretty good reviews, sold quite many copies and was something special for its time. That is true. Bethesda earn that.
BUT, does that mean things cannot be improved even further? As you can see in that thread I posted, people tend to like Morrowind even better. I agree with the OP partly. He made some good comparison points, but I disagree with him saying it was a real let-down and boring.

Morrowind's story, culture and atmosphere was far richer than Oblivion's, in my opinion of course. To implement things like this in Skyrim is, to me, essential. Oblivion had quite a few faults that many people complain about, but it also had some good things (soundtrack was incredible, there were more quests, etc). So what's so wrong about saying "have their learned their lessons"? I'm sure everyone here hopes they've learned from their mistakes and listened to people, combining the best of both worlds in Skyrim. Despite a lot of this being subjective, there also seems to be some objective points. The problem with Oblivion's leveled lists, and "random/bland" environment/dungeons are great examples of this.

hlvr: The majority active on this forum prefers Morrowind. But that is a very small minority compared to all those who buy the games. Bethesda has even said so - they appreciate the fans active on the forum, but that they know they have loads of other fans too, who do not write here. They want to listen to them just as much as the small hardcoe minority here. They listen to people, yes. But "people" isn't of one opinion. I for one prefer Oblivion, and I think Oblivion has just as good as atmosphere as Morrowind - only different. So who are the "people" they should listen to? The minor group on here that has been going from constructive criticism to whining over four years straight, or to the fact that Oblivion actually sold like crazy and was extremely highly rated amongst both gamers and reviewers?

Hmm.... Oblivion utterly failed? I think i'll refrain from making any furthur comments on this "I hate OB it sux MW was better" thing.

I want a deeper experience in Skyrim too though, and i'm an OB really devoted fan. To me OB is like the kid that gets bullied and pushed around, i've actually stopped trying to defend it now because threads like these just appear after one another.
So yes, i'm sure Skyrim will have more of everything, and will be great.

Actually, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 all had the Random Dungeon Syndrome. In Daggerfall it was excusable since they were using nifty procedural generation. In Morrowind, the dungeon environments were interesting, but the design of the dungeons themselves made no sense. Oblivion had few dungeon environments (one type of cave, Ayleid ruins, fort ruins, Oblivion) and the designs still made no sense. Fallout 3's dungeons' designs really made no sense, especially the DC metro system.

Whiiilst I'm actually in the "Oblivion was such a disapointment (((" group, I do hope they keep or improve further upon the combat system from OB rather than MW... but yea I'm pretty sure Level scaling will be fixed and the world will hav ea unique feeling to it again

Actually yes, it is a bad RPG. It is a pretty good looking GAME, an entertaining ACTION GAME but as an RPG it's a let down without the need to compare it to Morrowind.

My arguments are:
-a good RPG would never have that level scaling atrocity that prevents you feeling the progression
-a good RPG gives you some decent dialogue options
-a good RPG can be played in different ways with different classes
-a good RPG has a good story
-a good RPG assumes that the player is intelligent enough to solve the quests and puzzles without handholding.