Fallout 3 did two things better than New Vegas: Music and exploration. New Vegas beat it in every other respect.

I have to disagree, really.

My view as to what makes a Fallout game a Fallout game follows my view as to what makes a BioShock game a BioShock game. Which has had a (ridiculously) similar argument since the announcement of BioShock Infinite. Which, to a number of fans' disgust and general unhappiness, is not going to be in Rapture.

See, to me, a pile of rubble of a city isn't what equates to "Fallout" to me. Not solely. It's that sort of thing that would make it more obviously post-apocalyptic, and (in my opinion) does have a partial role in what makes a Fallout game-but that's all.

To me, it's the tone, the themes, and the mood. The gameplay also has it's importance-a Fallout game wouldn't be "Fallout" enough for me if it wasn't a RPG, that's one of the reasons I love it so much, and thus one of the reasons I love the improvements to Fallout: New Vegas so much. The darker of themes, the gray and gray morality, the dark humor, the ability to truly impact the game's world. The retro-futuristic, alternative universe with all the 50s science and actual events and views from around that time being http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction and implemented into the game. The whole "what if a nuclear apocalypse occurred?" idea. The idea of watching humanity try to slowly rebuild itself, and throw itself into countless conflicts, with one of the constant themes of the fact that "War, War Never Changes" constantly proven throughout the whole of the storyline. The rather cynical attitude with an inkling of idealism and hope. That, to me, is what makes a Fallout game. Not purely the placing of its setting in a forever http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld universe with destroyed and crumbling buildings.

In fact, from what I heard of one of the older Fallout fans(as I still haven't had the chance to ever play the classics myself), Fallout 2 had major improvements (in the universe and lore, I mean) from Fallout 1. Including even plant-life. Which, following that idea and that theme's possible existence in the Fallout series, would mean that the way Fallout 3's D.C. had nearly no improvement in all its years after the Great War goes against Fallout's "atmosphere" and such.

I am, by no means, trying to belittle the fans who prefer Fallout 3-or saying your reasons are ridiculous or stupid. This is just my personal opinion on the issue.

Atmospheric or Radio music? I don't really listen to the radio often so I have no opinion, but I consider the atmospheric music in New Vegas to be phenomenal, better than any Fallout game, IMO. It has songs from each game, plus the eerie violin while exploring the desert fits perfectly.

Indeed, the original music composed for New Vegas is some of the best in the series. I would have liked the inclusion of Fallout 1/2 ambient music more if the placement wasn't so poor, and in some places where it should have been it wasn't (generic base music from Fallout 3 instead of Metallic Monks in the Brotherhood Bunker? What is this I don't even).

I actually liked New Vegas' radio music as well though, and I liked many of the songs better than what was on GNR in Fallout 3.

I was going to mod them in, but sadly the GECK went all "[censored] you! :hehe: " on me.

I disagree. I think NVs atmosphere was much better.

Well okay... That's your opnion, to me Vegas' atmosphere was not post-apocalyptic at all... F3 feels like the Great War actually happened.

*looks at super mutants, destroyed buildings, cazadors, ghouls*
Looks like it happened to me.

Yeah like it happened yesterday you mean, also, I'm sure one of New Vegas's developers said in an interview that it was more like a "Post-Post Apocalypsic Game".

The Great War happened,,,,,,,,,,,,




200 Years ago!!!!!!

How does it not feel that way in New Vegas? There's ruined buildings, highways, irradiated mutations, Ghouls and raider groups; the game certainly felt post apocalyptic to me.

Maybe more green tint makes the game more apocalyptic :whistling:

Solution: wear green tinted sun glasses.

:foodndrink:

Yes it did feel a little too much like it happened less than a decade ago, but I felt like the world never even ended while playing Vegas (I only said you can tell the apocalypse happened in F3)



Highways feel post-apocalyptic to you?

There was only two raider groups (unless you count the Great Khans), were hardly any ghouls or irradiated mutations (You can really play the entire game only running into Giant Geckos, I did on one quick playthrough)

It is not really post-apocalyptic, just the setting, not the feel or anything.

Is Mad Max 2 post-apocalyptic to you? I mean, it's only a red desert withough a green tint and occasionally an asphalt road that's not cracked or anything, but then there are the punk rockers driving their customized and modded cars and motorbikes, using bows and crowsbows, and there's only a revolver and a sawn-off shotgun as the only firearms in the film.

There were few raiders cause the lands were more civilized by NCR and House but there are still signs of a fictional universe taking place in the post-apocalypse, for instance, people walk around with guns in the street.

Ghouls aren't some kind of epidemic, they're not really suppose to swarm over the area.
Look at FO1, only ghouls were some in Hub (IIRC) and Necropolis.
Look at FO2, there were some ghouls in Broken Hills and Gecko but other than that there weren't that many others.

Irradiated mutations?

Anyway, I look at the game and what do I see?
I wake up in Goodsprings and see Bighorners the size of elephants.
I go on a quest to hunt penguin lizards.
I go to sloan and find a giant molerat.
I go further down to Primm and find a town taken over by a bunch of escaped convicts, with the local military just outside not being able to do anything because it's a low priority target.
I go further down south and find giant ants the size of bears.
I go east and find a town burning to the ground with people crucified and find a bunch of men in roman esque clothing with their leader who's named Vulpes Inculta wearing a wold-head-hat.
Maybe I don't see radiation every 15 feet, maybe I don't see raiders every 15 feet, maybe I don't see a crater every 15 feet, but I see enough to admit that this isn't normal, this isn't like the real world at all, something has happened to make these areas, creatures and people like this, something big, The Great War.
The Great War happened, out of the ashes these things were born.
Again, it doesn't have to look like it was bombed yesterday for it to feel like the post-apocalypse.
Just look around at the people of the wastes, look at the laws, look at the wild life, look at the various factions.
I can't look at these things and say that it "doesn't" feel like the post apocalypse. (Or maybe post post apocalypse.)

Ruined highways, I didn't think I had to say ruined twice in one sentence to make this clear.



The Great Khans are raiders, the Jackals are raiders, the Vipers are raiders and the Fiends are raiders.



Ghouls are supposed to be rare. Regardless that's beside the point, they were in the game.



Geckos are mutations... as are the legions of giant ants, radscorpions and cazadores scattered about the region. Deathclaws, nightstalkers and super mutants also qualify as mutations though those particular mutations are a result of human experiments and not the Great War.



Honestly, I've yet to see anyone give a good argument as to why.

Aren't all wastelanders mutants?
Wasn't that why Lieutenant wanted the Vault Dwellers clan?
Cause they were prime normals (non mutants.).

Further strengthened in Fallout 3 when you put the virus in the water to kill all mutations, and you die from drinking it yourself even though you're a normal human?

Continuity error.

I think that New Vegas's setting is Post-Apocaylptic. However, I think that the real problem with its setting is the fact that its in a desert (not necessarily a problem but this is just my opinion and im starting to get the feeling that alot of people share it). Realistically a desert isn't going to see that much change following a Nuclear War anyway and adding to the fact that Vegas and the mojave wasn't hit that bad just compounds the issues. I just think that the desert setting doesn't always allow for the "post-apocalyptic" feel to come out as much as with Fallout 3 (ruined countryside, destroyed houses along desolate roads, burned out shells of towns, a grimy and destroyed city with numerous underground metros invested with irradiated abominations, and ruined and decrepate powerstations and factories).

With a desert/1950s Vegas setting there just isn't the same amount of opportunity to do that because its just....desert. Its like "SAND its everywhere! Get used to it!"

I think one thing that they could have maybe done was to make Vegas seem a bit more maze-like and grimy and dark with looming structures (outer Vegas is what I'm talking about here). Something along the lines of DC in fallout 3. However since 1950s vegas was historically fairly small at that time then again, theres just not much room for that.

In short, I would be perfectly happy if a desert setting was never visited again.





No continuity error. The virus developed by the Enclave was designed to wipe out anyone with even the slightest hint of genetic mutations. The LW was born outside the vault and was therefore contaminated and so it kills him to drink the water, as it would anyone who was not a part of the Enclave or born in a vault.

In effect the LW, is indeed a "mutant" along with everyone else in the wasteland.

In all fairness, assuming the strain of virus is the same as Richardson's only adapted to be ingested through water rather than oxygen, it's supposed to kill everyone indiscriminately anyway. The effects are actually supposed to be worse for pure strain humans.

Yeah, I agree. That's not to say the game-world has to be littered with craters and trash, and everything tinted green, for it to feel post-apocalyptic... it's just that, as a desert barely touched by bombs, there isn't much that screams post-apocalyptic. The Pitt did this really, really well in my opinion. No bombs fell there, but there's no way you'd ever argue it doesn't feel post-apocalyptic. The Mojave Wasteland felt too untouched by the war. :shrug:

No this is Bethesda's FEV, it targets only pure-humans, how?... :whistling:

In all seriousness I'm sure Eden says they adapted it or modified it or something so that it does only target pure-humans as opposed to only being safe after innoculation.