I have realized why i prefer FO3 to FNV : Fallout Series Discussion

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:34 pm

it's just that, as a desert barely touched by bombs, there isn't much that screams post-apocalyptic. The Pitt did this really, really well in my opinion. No bombs fell there, but there's no way you'd ever argue it doesn't feel post-apocalyptic. The Mojave Wasteland felt too untouched by the war.

My thoughts exactly. The Pitt is an ideal post-apocaylptic atmosphere. The buring fires, the great looming skycraqers and the murky heavily irradiated rivers all scream "apocalypse!".

In fact I think that the Pitt was so good that I wish they could have gotten rid of Operation Anchorage and MZ and put all that time and effort into expanding the Pitt and its storyline. One thing that was always tempting for me was the raiders talking about parties scavenging in the rest of the city and I wanted to explore "the rest". :sadvaultboy:

» Sat May 14, 2011 2:16 am

My thoughts exactly. The Pitt is an ideal post-apocaylptic atmosphere. The buring fires, the great looming skycraqers and the murky heavily irradiated rivers all scream "apocalypse!".

In fact I think that the Pitt was so good that I wish they could have gotten rid of Operation Anchorage and MZ and put all that time and effort into expanding the Pitt and its storyline. One thing that was always tempting for me was the raiders talking about parties scavenging in the rest of the city and I wanted to explore "the rest". :sadvaultboy:

I haven't been reading this entire thread (I consider it spoiler-ific) but DON'T YOU DARE TAKE MY BENJAMIN MONTGOMERY AND REPLACE HIM WITH ANYTHING, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:00 am

I think that New Vegas's setting is Post-Apocaylptic. However, I think that the real problem with its setting is the fact that its in a desert (not necessarily a problem but this is just my opinion and im starting to get the feeling that alot of people share it). Realistically a desert isn't going to see that much change following a Nuclear War anyway and adding to the fact that Vegas and the mojave wasn't hit that bad just compounds the issues. I just think that the desert setting doesn't always allow for the "post-apocalyptic" feel to come out as much as with Fallout 3 (ruined countryside, destroyed houses along desolate roads, burned out shells of towns, a grimy and destroyed city with numerous underground metros invested with irradiated abominations, and ruined and decrepate powerstations and factories).

With a desert/1950s Vegas setting there just isn't the same amount of opportunity to do that because its just....desert. Its like "SAND its everywhere! Get used to it!"

I think one thing that they could have maybe done was to make Vegas seem a bit more maze-like and grimy and dark with looming structures (outer Vegas is what I'm talking about here). Something along the lines of DC in fallout 3. However since 1950s vegas was historically fairly small at that time then again, theres just not much room for that.

In short, I would be perfectly happy if a desert setting was never visited again.

No continuity error. The virus developed by the Enclave was designed to wipe out anyone with even the slightest hint of genetic mutations. The LW was born outside the vault and was therefore contaminated and so it kills him to drink the water, as it would anyone who was not a part of the Enclave or born in a vault.

In effect the LW, is indeed a "mutant" along with everyone else in the wasteland.

This.

Several points similar to that were in my head I just didn't now how to word it...

In all fairness, assuming the strain of virus is the same as Richardson's only adapted to be ingested through water rather than oxygen, it's supposed to kill everyone indiscriminately anyway. The effects are actually supposed to be worse for pure strain humans.

No, it's supposed to be perfectly fine for pure humans, mutants however will die from digesting it... And as post before you were born outside of the vault so you count as a mutant...

Yeah, I agree. That's not to say the game-world has to be littered with craters and trash, and everything tinted green, for it to feel post-apocalyptic... it's just that, as a desert barely touched by bombs, there isn't much that screams post-apocalyptic. The Pitt did this really, really well in my opinion. No bombs fell there, but there's no way you'd ever argue it doesn't feel post-apocalyptic. The Mojave Wasteland felt too untouched by the war. :shrug:

This.

I'm going to sell my F3 and F:NV copies (they're for PS3) to buy it on PC... F3 so I can mod the Pitt and F:NV so I can make this mod I had an idea for... It's a mod that adds a zombie invasion, it's different from the otehr ones because all characters in the game can become mutated instead of zombies spawning everywhere... The mods will take me a VERY long time... PC users please don't steal my ideas!

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:14 pm

The atmosphere was awesome. Then I realized it had been 200 years and this was Fallout.
Seriously though if you "can" overlook those two things then that's great but I simply couldn't.
But the problem is, there isn't suppose to be just one setting.
In FO2 and FO1 every town/city had it's own "feel".
So while New Vegas has it's own feel it's still very repetitive just like FO3's.

Agreed.

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:27 pm

Don't get me wrong, both games are amazing and revolutionary. In terms of gameplay, quests, smoothness of game, weapons, etc, FNV is better. But, the reason FO3 is overall better is simple: the atmosphere. The music in FO3 is amazing. Either very happy or very sad and it gets you emotional when you are wandering the hopeless, desolate, bleak Capital Wasteland. The music in FNV isn't bad, you can't go wrong with Frank Sinatra or any of the songs, but they aren't Fallout-y, if that makes sense. They are more positive, western songs. Also, FNV seems too rebuilt. And what I mean by that is sure there are problems in the Mojave, but overall, society is somewhat civilized now and rebuilt almost; big cities, big factions, etc. FO3 like defined the definition of a post-apocalyptic world. Unimaginable atrocities, desolate land with limited establishments, seemingly overrun by animals and enemies, not overrun by a government force, NCR or a formidable evil society that is strong, Caesers Legion.

I don't know if my rambling make sense, but FO3 is better overall. FNV is brilliant, but it's not bleak enough and the music for sure doesn't make it feel bleak like in FO3. Into each life some rain must fall, way back home, etc those beat jingle jangle jingle and blue moon any day when it comes to Fallout atmosphere. FO3 and FNV are amazing, but FO3 is better thanks to the atmosphere. If FO4 ever comes out, I hope they make it like FO3 in the atmosphere aspect, but FNV in every other aspect.

I'm a heathen on this board. I haven't played FO1 or FO2. I just got FONV, and decided to buy FO3 at the same time. So, this is from a total lore noob, keep this in mind if you want to dismiss what I'm going to say out of hand. Blame my heathenness and noobyness... but I prefer FO3 over FONV - and I'm basically playing them concurrently.

In FO3 I stepped out of Vault 101, got blinded, and as my vision cleared I looked out over the devastation below and was awestruck. Such devastation. Admittedly, it was my first contact with the world of Fallout. GNR was just static. Enclave radio was suspiciously gregarious. A few mole rats subsequently feasted on my carcass outside of Megaton. I loved it. Twenty hours or so later, I'm about to start getting serious with the main quest because I keep getting sidetracked by mini-quests. Whether it's to sneak into mirelurk nests and plant stuff, shivering over the messages in the computers in Georgetown, wondering about who Grady was and why he was handling the naughty nightgown.

I love FONV too. But I'm not really getting sidetracked from the main quest. I haven't met this bratty kid running up to me complaining about ants yet in FONV and demanding I solve it NOW. I've just devastated Caesar's legion in the east, but couldn't finish the job because there was two brats in the Fort that were immortal. Yes, the Legion breeds immortal kids. In FO3 I got an earful of four letter words from a kid about half my length. FONV is more like a train track you're on, more like a theme park where you're guided toward an end. I haven't really stopped to wonder about any of the people here. They don't have that extra dimension of mystery about them. They're actors working for a singular end for their factions. I can't really put it clearer than that.

These are, as I said, my impressions of the game. I can spend a lot of time in FO3 just following a dungeon to its end to find computers to hack to find out more about it. I don't tend to do that in FONV. I don't really know why, and it is of course HIGHLY subjective of me to say that.

I read the other threads about this stuff, and scratched my head. People have painted themselves into rhetorical corners about this subject, it seems, and are digging up details to support their viewpoint. For me, and again it's subjective, FO3 is more of a world while FONV is more of an adventure.

/rambling end.

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:09 am

Wow. So FNV is the linear one, pointing you in the direction of the end? I thought that was F3, I mean, since there is only one outcome, and you have to help your daddy and the brotherhood and you have to do this and that, whether you want it or not. In FNV, you hunted Benny down and once he was killed, you got completly sidetracked. I mean, I haven't even finished the game with any character yet, I just get to Benny and then... it splits up in four different storylines, unlike F3's single, linear storyline, and I just do a lot of side quests, occasionally do a single quest within the main quest because I'm already at that place doing something else and then I find other side quests... well, I should probably start doing the main quest now anytime soon.

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:47 am

I agree completely. To me Fallout New Vegas bordered on cheesy at times which pretty much ruined the game for me. I got as far as getting the chip and haven't touched the game since. Fallout 3 had a much more serious tone a tense atmosphere down to scary at times.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:51 am

I agree completely. To me Fallout New Vegas bordered on cheesy at times which pretty much ruined the game for me. I got as far as getting the chip and haven't touched the game since. Fallout 3 had a much more serious tone a tense atmosphere down to scary at times.

Should pick New Vegas back up. New Vega has quests which deal with getting people physiological help after they were attacked sixually. Getting women away from six trade. Drug dealers and so on. There is a quest were you can talk a family into going back to an abusive husband/father. Deals with slavery and other moral issues. Pretty much everything is moral grey. Many quests can be done by talking things out. Game has alot of advlt content that is far from cheesy.

Fallout 3 has a Gaint Nuke throwing Robot and quests to collect Teddy Bears (DLC BS). Can't talk your way out of having to kill. Almost everything is Good or Evil and to top it all off, one of the biggest towns in the game has a live Nuke in the center and a Man asking you to blow it up with no one stopping him. As well as a cult worshiping it.

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:30 am

I agree completely. To me Fallout New Vegas bordered on cheesy at times which pretty much ruined the game for me. I got as far as getting the chip and haven't touched the game since. Fallout 3 had a much more serious tone a tense atmosphere down to scary at times.

Like Fallout 3 didn't have cheesy stuff, like The Superhuman Gambit, the Nuka-Cola addict, Republic of Dave, Little Lamplight... I mean, wtf? x)

And yeah, ~~Optimus~~ Liberty Prime! xD

» Fri May 13, 2011 3:11 pm

Like Fallout 3 didn't have cheesy stuff, like The Superhuman Gambit, the Nuka-Cola addict, Republic of Dave, Little Lamplight... I mean, wtf? x)

And yeah, ~~Optimus~~ Liberty Prime! xD

Meh. I didn't mind that stuff that much, sure some of it was cheesy but the dark atmosphere and feeling of desolation that Fallout 3 gave off was certainly not "cheesy", it was post-apocalyptic and erie.

except Prime....freaking robot... :pinch:

Not saying the New Vegas is bad or anything because of this, but some of the things I think they could have "toned down a bit". Fisto, (and in fact the entire quest with the atomic wrangler), tabitha (she was funny but the "hairsyle" and such was a bit....over the top), Lilly, and some of the "vegas dialouge ("hey hey baby" and such) maybe could have been bit dampered.

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:04 am

Like Fallout 3 didn't have cheesy stuff, like The Superhuman Gambit, the Nuka-Cola addict, Republic of Dave, Little Lamplight... I mean, wtf? x)

And yeah, ~~Optimus~~ Liberty Prime! xD

And the vampires. And the raiders. And the facial surgeon. And the blade runner knock off.

Edit: oh yeah! And the Fat Man. And the Super Mutant Behemoth.

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:18 pm

I believe both Fallouts had great atmosphere, The difference is: F3 happens in part of the world that still didn't recover (even in real history, not all places in the world advanced in same speed) while F:NW happens in part of the world that is recovering.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:21 pm

I believe both Fallouts had great atmosphere, The difference is: F3 happens in part of the world that still didn't recover (even in real history, not all places in the world advanced in same speed) while F:NW happens in part of the world that is recovering.

True not every place recovers at the same rate but after 200 years the people of DC should have figured out how to grow crops and farm animals. They figured out how to use brahmin as pack animals but not breed them for food?

Trees should be growing as well as other plants besides Oasis. The Sky should be blue. Radation should not be everywhere.

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:02 pm

And the vampires. And the raiders. And the facial surgeon. And the blade runner knock off.

Edit: oh yeah! And the Fat Man. And the Super Mutant Behemoth.

Okay, so maybe I chose my words poorly and I apologize. I just kinda rolled my eyes when I saw the mutants dressed up as women... kinda ch... uhh... wierd

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:49 pm

They figured out how to use brahmin as pack animals but not breed them for food?

They do. In Arefu, for example, their brahmin is their life-line.

» Fri May 13, 2011 2:53 pm

True not every place recovers at the same rate but after 200 years the people of DC should have figured out how to grow crops and farm animals. They figured out how to use brahmin as pack animals but not breed them for food?

Unless you get a super-mutant infestation from Vault 87 that decimates the farming community by dragging them back to the vault, and expose them to FEV there to increase the numbers. In which case you'll either run out of farmers (and farms) or the farmers will pack up and head to one of the safer towns like Megaton.

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:40 pm

They do. In Arefu, for example, their brahmin is their life-line.

Fair enough, Arefu does but no one else does. Still no crops, trees and no blue sky

Unless you get a super-mutant infestation from Vault 87 that decimates the farming community by dragging them back to the vault, and expose them to FEV there to increase the numbers. In which case you'll either run out of farmers (and farms) or the farmers will pack up and head to one of the safer towns like Megaton.

Did not stop the people in the West (core region) from farming and the Master had the children of the cathedral kidnapping people and dipping them in FEV Vats as well as his later army of super mutants which was many times greater in numbers then anything that came out of Vault 87. Super Mutants or not you have to eat.

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Fair enough, Arefu does but no one else does. Still no crops, trees and no blue sky

Did not stop the people in the West (core region) from farming and the Master had the children of the cathedral kidnapping people and dipping them in FEV Vats as well as his later army of super mutants which was many times greater in numbers then anything that came out of Vault 87. Super Mutants or not you have to eat.

This

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:03 pm

Did not stop the people in the West (core region) from farming and the Master had the children of the cathedral kidnapping people and dipping them in FEV Vats as well as his later army of super mutants which was many times greater in numbers then anything that came out of Vault 87. Super Mutants or not you have to eat.

No, but the same initial conditions do not always produce the same outcomes. Particularly not in complex systems like human societies.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:16 pm

No, but the same initial conditions do not always produce the same outcomes. Particularly not in complex systems like human societies.

IF your town is getting attacked by mutants, raiders, and mercs. And radiation is everywhere, and you can't grow crops worth a damn, wouldn't you just leave?

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:09 am

Didn't the people at the Oasis want to keep the outside away, there by keeping the trees inside? Also at megaton, you can see that one guy by the doctors place attempting farming. Also the super mutants were killing all the brahmin, I thought. At least they were by Little Lamplight.

» Fri May 13, 2011 3:29 pm

IF your town is getting attacked by mutants, raiders, and mercs. And radiation is everywhere, and you can't grow crops worth a damn, wouldn't you just leave?

Where would they go? Up north is slaver territory, Legion is on the west, Midwestern BoS is well midwest, I think... correct me if I'm wrong please. Plus most people are poor and weapons, if they have any, are in terrible condition. Hell some wastelanders have baseball bats as weapons, that won't get you far. Not sure about the south but there's probably more [censored] going down there as well.

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:46 pm

Didn't the people at the Oasis want to keep the outside away, there by keeping the trees inside? Also at megaton, you can see that one guy by the doctors place attempting farming. Also the super mutants were killing all the brahmin, I thought. At least they were by Little Lamplight.

Oasis was Bethesda attempt at showing that things will get better thanks to harold IMO. Things should have already been better. As in there should be trees like Oasis and point lookout everywhere. Guy in Megaton is just racking the ground.

alex man142 brings up a point I to have been saying "IF your town is getting attacked by mutants, raiders, and mercs. And radiation is everywhere, and you can't grow crops worth a damn, wouldn't you just leave?"

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:49 pm

Where would they go? Up north is slaver territory, Legion is on the west, Midwestern BoS is well midwest, I think... correct me if I'm wrong please. Plus most people are poor and weapons, if they have any, are in terrible condition. Hell some wastelanders have baseball bats as weapons, that won't get you far. Not sure about the south but there's probably more [censored] going down there as well.

They can go over the horizon. In past topics likes this I would mention why they have no fresh food as in crops. People would say there could be towns just over the horizon for all we know.

Still they could go to Point Lookout. Ignore the bullet sponge hillbillies and pretend they are just normal hillbillies it would be a far better place to live then DC. They Could move south. They could move West. If BoS could move east to DC in two years the People of DC could have in 200 years.

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:26 pm

Oasis was Bethesda attempt at showing that things will get better thanks to harold IMO. Things should have already been better. As in there should be trees like Oasis and point lookout everywhere. Guy in Megaton is just racking the ground.

alex man142 brings up a point I to have been saying "IF your town is getting attacked by mutants, raiders, and mercs. And radiation is everywhere, and you can't grow crops worth a damn, wouldn't you just leave?"

He could be farming. Face it DC is screwed. The factions there are also a great influence on the people living there. The factions are greedy, stealing, killing, and such, so generally, when people see this and the outcome, which is they got what they wanted; food, shelter, weapons... well they are going to do it as well. As far as most people think, they're [censored] might as well join in on the chaos, which is why the Capital Wasteland isn't getting the ball rolling. Maybe that's what Bethesda saw and decided to give you the role as the Lone Wanderer, whos job was to try and get the ball rolling.