Headline News! Mages get the Shaft.

Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:13 pm

Nobody makes you read the forums. Where else do you expect people to whine?
Some level of whining informs decisions made in future games.
The rest is just the usual forum whining found anywhere.

No one is making you play the game either . It is what it is.
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:15 pm

hermm well like i said earlier apparent devoted fan crapping purple rainbows who's obviously projecting your own views on other people and gettting butthurt over any1 not conforming to your clise-minded idiotic philosophy, (by this i mean mjsegaline) my destruction tree is maxed and the name of this forum topic is "Headline News! Mages get the Shaft. " not "lets 8!tch about destruction mages b/c i dont know how to play the game" am lvl 40 and have no problems whatsoever with my mage i like the versatility of being able to shot beem while my frosty companion takes a fireball to the face, if you playing just only on pure destruction then your pretty uhh not smart since after lvl 26-27 ur already maxed out in that tree, and not spending perk points past that lvl is your own fault, nothing else needs to be said


It's not about knowing how to play.The "sword"of a mage for dealing direct damage is Destruction.And that sword at the moment is pretty dull.It needs a sharpening.And that is a fact.
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Juliet
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:02 pm

Remove smithing, enchanting and alchemy for a bit. Know what? That doesn't improve Mages at all. Do you know why? Because the physical classes still have a much easier time thanks to weapon upgrades and skill increases. They won't be rushing to Daedric+++ items to blindly plow through the game, but they will still be steadily increasing from 1-50 or whatever. The way level scaling works in this game and because of how some elites seem to have ten times the health of trash enemies, it makes it much worse on someone who relies on a blue bar to deal all of their damage. The other problem is that the spells actually get more inefficient as you pickup the new versions. Sure, the cost drops as your destruction skill raises, but they are still less damage for the cost compared to previous spells. Then you have people saying "well lol all you need to do is powerlevel enchanting so that your spells cost nothing". So I should be forced to raise a crafting profession to it's max to make my damage tree viable? No physical class has to do this, and doing so with them just trivializes the game. You don't even need Enchanting/Alchemy on Adept level for physical classes to make it way too easy. Even on Expert, Smithing skill lvl 100 gear is way more than enough to easily plow through the game.


I agree that scaling is an issue but as I said, the tweaking has already begun. The mod I mentioned adds +10% damage to the Expert and +15% damage to the Master perk. The goal is to make the damage based on the level of Destruction but without the Creation Kit it seems to be not doable right now.

I still think that Expert and Master difficulty should not be a cakewalk. However it is a cakewalk for physical classes but that doesn't mean mages are screwed, it means physical classes are overpowered. You should never oneshot a level scaled enemy on Master.

By the way I haven't powerleveled Enchanting so I don't have -100% cost. I use the gear I found which gives me around -50% cost and 100% (or more, can't check it right now) faster regen and I got the faster regen perks from Restoration. I still run out of Magicka sometimes but I use the health-to-magicka spell to refill my blue bar then a healing spell to refill my red bar. Works like a charm.

You say that it's wrong to be forced to max out Enchanting to be a viable caster but you agree that maxing out Smithing makes a physical class' life much easier. Isn't the two pretty much the same?
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Nana Samboy
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:38 pm

Most of the people here who cries that mages are too weak tend to favor anyway melee/sneak character so no wonders I'm standing on a lake of tears.

I like how it is in Skyrim to be a mage, abit disappointed for the lack of spells that were in previous Oblivion game but I can live with that. Everyone says that it was easy to be a mage at the beginning and harder at later levels, well I had the opposite scenario. The more I have leveled up, the better have I become.
I haven't changed the difficulty settings at any point and I do not have any shiny armor, just the damn arch-mage robes and a ring that makes destruction spells cost less about 15%.
I have pumped pretty much everything to my magicka points so needless to say I can't take that much damage, but spells like ironflesh etc shields me well if someone ever get's too close to me, oh the flame/frost/shock cloak is also nice. Sometimes I just run around my target and let him die for my ''passive'' damage xD

I don't have any followers, but I'm gonna try that, but I'm afraid that my AoE spells kills my allies :flamethrower:
I'm not yet master at any magic skills but that won't take long to achive and yes I'm a pure mage.

Yes I have sometimes more trouble than my warrior would have, but then again there are situations where my mage can overcome easily situations what my warrior could not defeat that easily.
I'm not against any patches that fixes the game, especially when I'm playing on PS3 any patch is welcome. Important characters that are inside a wall...NOT cool. (unrelenting force lvl3 blasted one dude out from a rock :foodndrink:

You don't like magic in Skyrim ? Fine, stick with swords and bows. Email bethseda if you think patch is need'ed. Alot more quicker to share your concerns with them AND we will avoid these flame topics. I mean I'm fairly new in this forum and yet crying about magic topics seem to be endless in this forum.
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Paula Rose
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:12 am

I honestly don't care about the attritubte loss, most of them were redundant and did not effect much to begin with. There is, however, no excuse for the complete and utter destruction of the mage role. Not only did they remove most of the really nice spells (unlock, drains, real invisibility, weapon destruction, waterwalking, DOTs and poison related damage from spells, and from Morrowind to Oblivion already removed some awesome ones like levitate and recall) but they have taken out any aspect of roleplay within the mage class. All that is left for a mage is weak offensive spells. There is no more utility to being a mage.

You no longer feel powerful or mage like. You know longer feel like you are anything different than the 12 year old's character next door in heavy armor, with one handed and a fireball. Except you feel A LOT weaker. There is almost no incentive to wear robes for mages, seeing as heavy armor can be enchanted with the same bonuses most robes come with and beyond that there is no incentive. The destruction spells don't scale and you end up becoming the equivalent of a snow ball chucking bully by mid game. By then, warriors and assassins are one shotting just about everything and in better armor.

When confronted with a lock, what is my MAGE forced to do? Whip out a rusty lockpick! Why? Because Bethesda took out all the non-combat oriented spells! But hey, at least I can still cast magelight..... However, I'm sure that will be removed in the next TES game, so don't get too attached.

This game has turned into a hack and slash, sorry to say it but that's the facts. And it really makes me mad to see Bethesda alienating the core group of RPG fans that made Beth what they are today.



Facts you say? I happen to be having a fun time as well as my FULL Mage. No armor *gasp*

Everything you said us based on your opinion. Sounds like you played too much without taking breaks, and burned yourself out.
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Monika Fiolek
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:34 pm

Destruction mages are hugely overpowered. If you're even slightly skilled every single enemy in the game is an easy kill for a mage(at least untill level 30, above that I have no info) because the game is scaled and stay at the same difficulty level the whole game through.

I Could defeat any enemy in the game with walk turned on as a mage from start to finish

Mages need to be harder to play, but they made it easy like this because Bethesda scaled it for the lowest common denominator, for the slow and clunky console gamers. At master I can now do nothing to get a challenge out of the game with the class I wan't to play. Scaling has absolutely ruined another Bethesda game, removing my ability to go looking for challenge on my own, because the world is adjusted to be easy for me wherever I go.
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des lynam
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:43 am

Destruction mages are hugely overpowered. If you're even slightly skilled every single enemy in the game is an easy kill for a mage(at least untill level 30, above that I have no info) because the game is scaled and stay at the same difficulty level the whole game through.

I Could defeat any enemy in the game with walk turned on as a mage from start to finish

Mages need to be harder to play, but they made it easy like this because Bethesda scaled it for the lowest common denominator, for the slow and clunky console gamers. At master I can now do nothing to get a challenge out of the game with the class I wan't to play. Scaling has absolutely ruined another Bethesda game, removing my ability to go looking for challenge on my own, because the world is adjusted to be easy for me wherever I go.


The problems tend to begin after level 40 when you maxed out Destruction and have the master spells. After that you still gain levels so the enemies still become stronger but your spells won't do more damage. It's not the end of the world in my opinion but it definitely needs some tweaking (which will be done in like 1 hour after the Creation Kit is released).
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Sunnii Bebiieh
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:43 pm

Its because of the 360's 8gb of disk space, they have to make the game for [censored]test of the platfroms. Next generation TES will be just as detailed as old, but with Skyrim like graphics, sound and physical design.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:31 pm

it wasn't until I developed my thief with archery skills that I really noticed how much mages had been nerfed. Ther mastery spells are redundant as you cannot use them while moving and the 3 or 4 second buildup flourish makes them unsuitable for confined areas (dungeons). You are therefore stuck with using the expert thunderbolt (etc.) spells for damage that use set damage. I made a daedric bow, and some +% bow dmg armour gear and was one shotting most things at level 43 with only 23 in archery and no perks in it. I could easily kite 2 giants and a mammoth, capture their souls into gems and not get hit or run out of mana. This is not to say the mage class is not enjoyable, it is for me however more hassle than it's worth in it's current state. I'll be sticking with bows and using my mana to heal and illuminate dark areas.
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Setal Vara
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:25 pm

Really? Have you played Morrowind or Oblivion? They were both huge on magic, go play the games and come back and talk to me.

I've played both, and in both an entirely melee-based character was still very powerful, and often the best way to approach combat. The games were never about magic, magic was just one of many tools available.
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Aman Bhattal
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:35 pm

Destruction mages are hugely overpowered. If you're even slightly skilled every single enemy in the game is an easy kill for a mage(at least untill level 30, above that I have no info) because the game is scaled and stay at the same difficulty level the whole game through.

I Could defeat any enemy in the game with walk turned on as a mage from start to finish

Mages need to be harder to play, but they made it easy like this because Bethesda scaled it for the lowest common denominator, for the slow and clunky console gamers. At master I can now do nothing to get a challenge out of the game with the class I wan't to play. Scaling has absolutely ruined another Bethesda game, removing my ability to go looking for challenge on my own, because the world is adjusted to be easy for me wherever I go.


You're playing on Easy or just blatantly lying which really hurts your credibility on this forum. Even on NORMAL as a Mage in all cloth you can get two and even one hit killed by enemies.

Abusing enemy AI =/= beat every enemy with walk turned on. You see the problem with people like you is that you don't realize melee and archer fighters do not have to hop up and down rocks to make the enemy run back and forth, they don't even have to kite like Destruction Mages do.

You abuse the AI as a Mage and think "Woah this is easy" and put it down to the fact you're playing a Mage and not because you're basically turning enemy AI off.
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Mashystar
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:41 pm

Its because of the 360's 8gb of disk space, they have to make the game for [censored]test of the platfroms. Next generation TES will be just as detailed as old, but with Skyrim like graphics, sound and physical design.


And it'll still be holding back the PCs.. but that's another issue.
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:49 pm

Not news anymore. it's all people have been whining about since release. I hate it, but other than mods, there's nothing for it. And everything that can be said about it has been. People are discontented.
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SaVino GοΜ
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:29 pm

Even on NORMAL as a Mage in all cloth you can get two and even one hit killed by enemies.


Those archers, OH THOSE ARCHERS!
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liz barnes
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:13 pm

There is no reason to wear mage robes - as in being a pure mage. I go with a full suit of Dragonscale armor with 25% reduction in Destruction spells and with some various secondary enchantments: elemental resistance, health, carry weight.
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Fam Mughal
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:43 am

Haven't really got round to playing my mage yet but wanted to say the followng:

It is a shame that a lot of the spells that were in Morrowind and Oblivion are missing but the reason the Levitate spell was removed is that it just wouldn't work with how some citys are seperate 'cells' than the outsde world.

Also this is a single player game so although I have looked at the math it wouldn't matter too much that you are underpowered by the numbers. Plus these could be improved by using weakness to ... spells.
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Channing
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:51 pm

Its because of the 360's 8gb of disk space, they have to make the game for [censored]test of the platfroms. Next generation TES will be just as detailed as old, but with Skyrim like graphics, sound and physical design.


What the hell? Yet the Morrownd that people are lauding as the the magical masterpiece came out on the orignal Xbox wth excatly the same content that was on the PC.

And I don't even want to get started on the stupid 'Consoles are holding back PC's' argument because its been done to death and there is very little, if any truth to it.
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Mike Plumley
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:36 am

Levitate was taken out due to undermining clever level design. Source was an interview in UK PC Gamer.
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saxon
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:46 pm

good invisibility was beyond [censored]
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Kristian Perez
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:29 pm

After reading this article I'm going to wait until Bethesda patches the game for mages or wait until a mod comes out that buffs them. Basically they are 5x weaker than warriors according to the article, and that's a lot. It should be the opposite as mages are like glass cannons that do lots of damage but can die easily.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1283497-destruction-versus-one-handed-statistics/page__gopid__1937638


How does Bethesda balance "classes" when there are no "classes" and players can choose to combine any mix of skills that they choose?

How can you call a mage a "glass cannon" when one can easily max out magic and heavy armor abilities, becoming a tank mage?

There are no "pure" classes in Elder Scrolls, and that's the beauty of it.
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:13 pm

What the hell? Yet the Morrownd that people are lauding as the the magical masterpiece came out on the orignal Xbox wth excatly the same content that was on the PC.

And I don't even want to get started on the stupid 'Consoles are holding back PC's' argument because its been done to death and there is very little, if any truth to it.

While it's a combination of factors, and therefore not solely down to the console machines themselves, to attempt to dismiss it is fallacious on your part.

Still, this isn't the point of the thread.
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Gavin boyce
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:11 pm

How does Bethesda balance "classes" when there are no "classes" and players can choose to combine any mix of skills that they choose?

How can you call a mage a "glass cannon" when one can easily max out magic and heavy armor abilities, becoming a tank mage?

There are no "pure" classes in Elder Scrolls, and that's the beauty of it.



There is some level of contradiction here. If a player can choose to combine any mix of skills then it naturally follows that they can choose to focus so singularly as to qualify as a pure this or that.
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Isaiah Burdeau
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:30 am

If you look at Skyrim as a stand-alone game, its not so bad.

However, coming from the series that traditionally offers the most varied, complex, tweakable and utalitarian spell system ever devised for a computer game, this is unacceptable.

The loss of spellmaking hurts me to the bone, but to see destruction and conjuration hollow shells of what they once were, to realise I cant even waterwalk anymore..
I love Skyrim and have only one serious gripe with it.

The magic system is unacceptably bad, for a TES game.
Dragon Age 1 has a more varied and useful spellsystem. Than a TES game.
Unbelievable.
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Solène We
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:55 pm

yeah mages r relatively weak in this game i played both morrowind and oblivion. at the same level morrowind and oblivion mages can destroy skyrim in dps and functionality i have 2 characters my 1h with shield can out pace my mage cuz he can stagger mage but the mage cant. their both lvl 35 mage can freeze them but the higher lvl seem resistant
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Hayley O'Gara
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:05 am

The magic system is unacceptably bad, for a TES game.
Dragon Age 1 has a more varied and useful spellsystem. Than a TES game.
Unbelievable.


And it allowed combining spells too. Ah, Glyph Explosion :wub:

Looking forward to "ALL LAME" mod (A Lot Lot Less Annoying Magic Experience :P).
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Lily Something
 
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