Do i think the spells need to be take out? NO, but i think some of them could be nerfed some to increase the balance between warrior and mage. Although i wouldn't mind if they did the same to the armor skills and enchantments too. I found that with my warrior once i hit lvl 20 and got some good armor and put some enchantments on it i was pretty much invincible in the game.

Mages that wanted to have a large mana pool(needed for many spells/stronger spells) and 100% SE would have almost no defense.

Melee users that had full armor and leveled block would only take 3.75% of the damage they would've taken w/o any.

Mages dished out damage very well.

Melee had a super defense.

This seemed like quite a good balance to me.

- -^Oblivion

I
I see... That is reasonable. I always play a stealth character in p-much all RPGs. I'll sneak around and try to avoid combat, but if I'm discovered I throw stealth out the window and start playing as a warrior...with a rogue-type character. Any D&D players would be mortified at my multi-classing in NWN2(lvl. 18 rogue / lvl. 3 Assassin / lvl. 8 Warrior Tiefling). Yeah :disguise: :violin: :violin: :violin:

I plan on my first character being a mage i love using all magic to fight. Although in oblivion i never felt like an all powerful wizard at all i think they are going to do a waaay better job in skyrim to make one feel like a powerful wizard

It isn't that magic was overpowered, it's that it was overused. Magic in Oblivion was rather weak compared to wacking the enemy with a weapon. You had to spam magic in order for it to hit + deal decent damage to your enemy(ies).

Well, coming from a no-star Elder Scrolls "fan" (i've only really played Oblivion, about 30 minutes of just running around doin' nothin in Morrowind), I don't see why any magic should really be removed. I may not use the majority of it (unless restoration is the majority, which I highly doubt), but there are people who LOVE magic. There was one spell that i'd like to see that I heard of from a Game Informer magazine, I think the title was: Elder Scrolls Through the Years, or somewhere along the line of that. Apparently in Arena or one of those REALLY old ones, you could use some sort of tunnel magic, where you could go through walls or something like that. I'd have to look it up, but it sounds like it'd be fun!

I don't care
I don't care
I don't care

It's single-player, people...it's not like you're going to get pwned in PvP by another mage player using one of these "OMG h4x!" spells, now is it? :blink:

Of course people who use magic are going to be over-powered compared to someone who just uses a sword. A sword is no match for sorcery.

Looking back at my run-through of Arena, I have learned to hate Passwall. I was able to pass by all the difficult parts, even some of the riddles, by using a magical warhammer that had Passwall. Granted, I also overused Spell Breaker to get passed all the late-game magic spamers such as the liches. I will admit, Passwall was fun, but it eventually became so boring that I just wanted to beat Tharn to "finish the game". You might like it better than me, though I'd like to believe that anyone who has played Arena thinks that it was a good idea to remove Passwall.

Pretty much the only magic I care about is destruction and conjuration. Nothing is better than setting a guy on fire and/or summoning a crazy beast to fight with you.

No
No
Yes, I wanted levitation, mark, and recall back.

Part of the charm of TES is the magicks, and being able to develop each character's combat skills as I see fit. If I don't want to use a skill, I don't chose to develop it.

Overpowered is a relative term.

In both Oblivion and Morrowind, the only way to really get your magic to be overwhelmingly powerful, even in the face of Liches and Goblin Warlords, was to go through more loopholes, technical tinkers, system manipulation, and in some cases, flat out glitch exploitations, OR to turn the game to a much easier difficulty.

Other aspects of magic outside of the direct damage of Destruction spells, like Invisibility and charm, were not so much overpowering as they were convienient. . . the very type of unusual (for normal folk, standard fare really for class A magicians) and highly convienient power a mighty Archmage or a province famous (or infamous) warlock would be expected to wield. As dear old Grumpy the dwarf famously and hilarously said, "The Queen! She's an old Witch! She can make herself INVISIBLE! Why she could be in this room with us right now!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:grad: But in all seriousness, such powers are the special and proper province of the master enchanter. Those who do not like such powers. . . should perhaps avoid the study of magic.

Mostly the "overpowered" complaints come from one of two factions.

The first are Warrior types (occassionally stealth types) who wish, in theory, to roleplay pure warriors or thieves, but who cannot help looking over their shoulders with unhealthy amounts of jealous envy at the notion that there are warlocks and witches out there who can do things that are beyond their abilities. They don't want to become students (or, heaven forbid, masters) of magic themselves, but they hate the knowledge that the mastery of magic actuall allows for the acquisition of powers and abilities that they cannot easily match/replicate. You may classify these folks in the "haters" category, indeed.

The second group are people who, in theory, like playing mages, but who are more interested in an ever increasing "leveling" difficulty Action style game, in the vein of Link, Ninja Gaiden and Asteroid, than they are in RolePlaying. They want a game where every time you level up, more and more astroids fall out of the sky making it increasingly harder for your ship to avoid destruction. The goal in such a game is not to acquire an awesome deflector shield, but to keep dodging more and more asteroids in an attempt to reach a score of 1000000 points before being blown to kingdom come. You never really advance in such a game, because the gameworld is adamantly set against you like an entire pantheon of evil gods, and goes out of its way to make your advancements irrelevant.

Both schools often give a laundry list of complaints, that usually boils down to them not wanting wizards to be wizards. They generally have a notion that mages should essentially be X-Men mutants, with one or two cool powers like freeze ray or fireball, but not access to an actual list of diverese, and multi-purpose Spells.

I believe if there is OP magic it should be worked for, but that's me.

When it comes to mark recall and levitate, and similar spells that were removed (for good reason) I personally miss them, and would enjoy having them back. But I also realize they were removed for a reason...it's just a bit of selfishness on my part I suppose. can't be helped at times. =P

You heard wrong.

You are saying this as if there is no way to work the game world to fit the needs (without pointless eliminations). In a world with levitation you can be sure that there has been a lot of thought and effort put in to countering levitate. Most important being area effect enchants that make you unable to levitate in certain areas.

All it takes is a little thought and ingenuity.

As for ruining styles of game play so that I am forced to "enjoy" the the artwork? Are you joking? Please fire anyone on the staff that thinks like this!


It is unfortunate but it seems this backwards mindset you present is prevalent on the development staff. Instead of Fix and Make Better the plan is Ignore and Cut Away...

I love mages and i'd rather see diverse, interesting, and fun spells rather than being an over powered god who only needs to spam 1 spell.


Gladly stuff like pbaoe's, sprays, and glyphs are in the game - a major improvement for mage lovers.

Yes, I agree... I'd like for you to have to strategize and use different combinations of spells to achieve desired effects and so on... I'd like to have some serious thinking involved :foodndrink:.

The different ways spells can be cast is nice.

I like the special effects on the different elements better than the special effects on them in OB.

Now I haven't played Morrowind, but it seems Levitation was a lot of fun. I always wanted to float around and rain death from above in Oblivion like a true master mage. I hope,now that levitation is confirmed to be removed, that there'll at least be some sort of shout that allows us to fly.

Magic is only overpowered because of spell crafting. There are certain combinations of spell effects that allows you to break the game balance. Removal of spell crafting in skyrim basically removes magic been overpowered beyond what the developers intended.

The new spell system better be worth it. Never really used spell creation a lot myself but I always found it one of the more unique aspects of TES. With it removed and the stolen bioshock system in place it feels like Bethesda is falling into a copycat developer. Yeah some of the copycat material is good but I would rather have creative thought and innovation.

i personally don't like MAGIC in games. i also believe magic is OP. it makes sense for magic to be OP because not everyone is capable of wielding magic. ANYONE can wield a sword though!
for example: in LOTR gandalf could pretty much demolish any MOFO he wanted, he even killed the balrog (huge demon)! if legolas went toe to toe w/ gandalf... gandalf's magic would destroy legolas. gandalf's one of the only people able to use magic, HENCE why he is OP

Nope. Nope. I don't care.

The thing about magic is, it's a really slow start but once you master it, it really pays off.

I never really use magic though, it bores me. Only a bit of Illusion for my stealth characters and restoration for my warriors.

I dont think Bioshock's system is exactly like that this one for casting.

You know why I hate you so much Ainur? Because even when I disagree with your posts, you tend to have such an eloquent way of explaining your point that I feel drawn to just agree with you anyways. Perhaps its the oh so reverent way that you speak of the arts of magic. Its obvious that you have a deep passion towards that play style and I respect it. Maybe its because it reminds me of the way I sometimes speak of the arts of assassination as if I'm in character. Its always a honest pleasure to read your posts, friend.

Okay, I'll admit that if Bethesda had started Skyrim's development WITH the inclusion of Mark and Recall and Levitation as an essential priority, then there wouldn't be any difficulties designing it into the game, because it would have taken precedence over anything else. It seems to have been extremely difficult to try all the new stuff they are trying, and include these spells at the same time. Maybe after they learn from Skyrim, they'll figure out how to add these into the next game in the series. Either way, I think such spells should be extremely difficult to learn, and take up loads of mana/stamina when used, in order to balance things out. In order for a mage to be able to use these spells with ease, he needs to be at a very high level, have a very deep mana reserve, and have the necessary perks and skills to accomodate the playstyle.

Despite this, I still hope that our fellow students of the arcane will find their place in Skyrim, and be able to live out the mage fantasy that they desire. We've yet to see all the spells and what they offer, nor how well they will combine with the shouts and perks. Perhaps an all-powerful wizard (without levitation or mark and recall) will still be just as viable and fun as it was in Morrowind. :foodndrink: