I think that a mage should be one of the most powerful (if not most powerful) playstyle in every RPG. Sure, a sword can cut your arm off, but a fireball can burn you to a crisp. I think that mages in skyrim should be able to become pretty powerful, but magic should take longer to level up than most skills. I mean, it makes sense. *player swings sword* "Hey! Now, I know how to do that! " *player casts fireball* "AH WTF DID I JUST DO?!?" I mean, you can't just sit down and read a magic tutorial on how to do magic.

Man I'm not even a mage, I think mages in rpg's are stupid and i'm supporting them... lol

Yea almost all of magic's strength in OB came from people learning how to use the Spell Creation perfectly and from enchanting an extra 400-ish magicka.

Taking out (or not using) Spell Creation in OB would have cut a lot of the power out and the power:cost.

I think that the classic warrior, even though I love the arcane arts, should have it's counter-balancing tactics against the mage.. For example, a warrior may have a higher chance of finding an enchanted shield which resists all elemental damage... Or, Mages are so devoted to the arcane arts that their health and fatigue suffer.. Therefore, if a warrior lands even a single deadly blow, it could spell death for the mage...

I also here people who hate mages hate little puppy dogs, its true.

Actually, if you've got a warrior who's powerful enough, all it takes is closing in on the mage before he can fight back. Doesn't take too long for me in Oblivion. Especially when I'm striking at them from stealth.

Silence and Damage health poisons FTW.

This is true... But it depends on whether or not we see more powerful mages in Skyrim, or not...

Some of those examples the OP gave about overpowered magic may be feasible but are more of a pain in the ass than a killer strategy. Summoning, turning invisible, and then running away would take forever.

If magic really is overpowered, then just power up fighters as well. It's not like in real life people can survive taking an axe to the head. Same deal with stealth players.


And I'd love to see levitation return, though I doubt that the devs, as bullheaded as people in that profession seem to be, are willing to change anything at this point (hey, who's buying the game? That's right. Us). And supposedly there was climbing in Daggerfall. Putting that back in would be a great counter-weight to levitation.

Actually, I had more problems with the massive, fully-armored, Warrior NPCs who were maxed out in endurance and stamina and wielded a two-handed weapon. If I wasn't able to take them out quickly, then I had to get out of there fast or I was toast. I had to spend some serious time planning out my attack from the shadows with those guys.

I will say though that the magic using NPCs that gave me the most problems were the ones who relied heavily on immobilizing spells like paralyze. It was never fun being paralyzed, watching your character stiffen and slowly fall backwards, while at the same time having a high level clanfear summoned right next to you before you even hit the floor. Yeah, I rarely faired well in those situations. Usually bad planning, though.

Hmm, if i am correct Levitation is Morrowind was like a perma-flight spell right?

I think it could be in Skyrim and be balanced so you can't fly over all terrain and enemies without any harm. So i was thinking like Levitate 10 ft - 5 magicka per/sec.

This spell could be used to get you over obstacles like fallen rocks or gaps across floors that you couldn't jump across, and i don't think it is high enough to get over a city wall... and since you would have to use 1 hand to keep the spell up, you could only attack/defend yourself with the other hand.

I do think being able to fly anywhere you want and attack things like bears from 100ft up and fly over all puzzles in every dungeon breaks the game though.

I agree... There were some pretty worthy adversaries from both the warrior and arcane clans... But, if you faced some NPCs who had the arcane abilities of the pure-mage-player... That would be a sight to behold...

"I think worriers are overpowered. They should take out one of there weapon types to compensate. No one used spears anyway, right?" - A Paraphrased Todd Howard.

People like options. you don't need to use those options. I like to play as a pure mage, and not just in TES but in any game with magic. Realistically, a ball of fire to the face or a giant demonic servant SHOULD be stronger then a sword and a strong arm. If a wizard can go invisible, of coarse they would use it to *gasp* go threw dungeons unharmed! Wile yes, 100% comelian are Over powered, but with no more spell creation its not really a problem any more.

I actually think a few new spells could be used. A "speed" spell to replace fortify speed, and the return of a Jump spell could silence a lot of complaining about acrobatics/athletics.

Thats my 2 cents anyway...

*awaits the flameing*

Lol. Come now, ShadowWarrior, don't hate me, that hurts my feelings. Don't hate, Appreciate. Lol. In all seriousness though, I sincerely and humbly appreciate the compliments. And I do indeed love the arcane arts and playstyle.

As far as recall and levitation. . . I didn't have them in Oblivion. The removal of those particular spells doesn't ruin my day, HOWEVER, it is the principle that I take issue with, and what the representation of some of the encroachments and restrictions represent. I completely understand if certain things are difficult to implement, or cause game destroying glitches (game destroying like the game freezing, NOT "game destroying" being a caconym for giving the player methods for overcoming in game obstacles that some of the devs find displeasing). What makes me uncomfortable is the devs scaling back features in order to give the illusion of harder quests by gimping the players potential. In essence, instead of designing a tougher obstacle course, just hamstringing the athletes.


I agree that the more useful and powerful spells should require a lot of effort to attain and use. . . but I think this was pretty much the case in Oblivion. Despite all the hype, A player could not just stumble into being able to cast Invisibility spells, or to charm Dremora Princes, or to kill a Dread Zombie with a touch. Powers like that demanded that the player devout themselves to a great deal of leveling in a particular school of magic, as well as tracking down a spell in the proper category, and sometimes manipulating it through the altar. Now there are some who did all of these things and then complained that they were able to do them. But, to be frank, I have trouble respecting the arguments of some of those people ( and, to be clear, I am not including you in this group, as I never recall much in the way of such arguments having come from you) who completely plunder every single advantage, boost, exploit, and power the game offers, and then complain that the game ALLOWED them to become what they deem to be too powerful. and subseqently begin mewing to to strip such options from EVERYONE, by removing them from the game entirely.

I will admit that, as much as I HATE the removal of athletics increases, you really could not avoid levelling athletics and you couldn't avoid gaining its benefits once you had gained it, unless you intentionally damaged yourself. But the powers of alteration, mysticism, conjouration and the rest. . . no. There was no attaining those powers and the more potent spells attributed to them without a very aware, deliberate and dedicated effort. And, that being the case, I can see no good reason why they should not allow for some fairly extraordinary abilities, on the farside of their upper levels.

A master of illusion, with high mana due to long, proficient use of The Arts Arcane, should be able to dissapear, and fairly often.

No magic wasn't overpowered in Oblivion. It's too early to tell if it will be for Skyrim, but I'm going to assume that it won't be as well. The way I see magic and mages: magic should be difficult to master, but is a destructive force to be reckoned with when or if mastered. With that said, playing as a mage should prove to be quite challenging (at least more challenging than being a warrior, rogue, or archer) at low levels but should become a bit easier as your character progresses in powers, levels, and skills/perks. One thing that I'm hoping to see in Skyrim is the vast differences (both in graphics and abilities) between a novice mage and a master wizard. For example, a master wizard should be able to toss lightning bolts using the same spell that a novice mage would know, but with far greater intensity and power; the graphics should display such differences between a lightning bolt from a novice mage and a master wizard as well.

I like the idea of the differences between the master wizard and the apprentice mage... :foodndrink:

The thing is tho that mages dont use weapons like swords or axes that soldier would, or bows like a rouge, so they need some "over powered" spells to help them selves out. besides starting as a mage is realy hard cuze you only shoot off flares or other crap that does 10 damage, and everyone only plays a mage so that they can end up like Gandolf

Gandolf has actually never influenced my Arcane studies within the Elder Scrolls :tongue:... Merely the preference of wit to brawn is enough... :foodndrink:

It wasn't overpowered, in Oblivion it was probably underpowered and pure mages were discouraged, from the looks of Skyrim and the spells taking up a wield spot, this won't be the case.

Magic should be powerful, but only by giving them fireballs that do 100 damage for 3 seconds. Not by giving them these listed spells



EDIT: Just to be clear, they should not be removed but greater magica cost and lower effect

The thing is, bashing the urine out of everything you encounter that doesn't like you (or trying to do so) is not the only viable means of dealing with obstacles, nor should it be.

The powers you list are various alternatives, no different really from high leveled stealth being utilized as opposed to combat.

Your stance also entirely ignores the roleplaying aspect of the game. Spells like openlock and invisibility do not make lock picking or stealth obsolete if you are ROLEPLAYING as a pure thief and not as a warlock. Thus, your character is not gifted with magic, but is very skilled at tinkering in keyholes. If you ARE playing as a powerful warlock, then why the hell should you have to rely on lockpicks? You might not know how to best manipulate a bobbypin, but you cast spells well and often. You are a mage, a wizard, a Thaumaturge, a worker of the miraculous, privy to strange and mysterious powers. Just as you can manipulate energy to form a stream of flame in mid air, so too can you manipulate energy to lift a couple of pins in a lock.

Now, if you are playing as some hybrid thieving/warrior/mage, sure, your spells might void your need for lockpicks. . . but no one forces anyone to play as such a hybrid character. It is a role playing option. It is not mandatory.

Lockpicks are the pure thief's and the thief/warrior hybrid's way of opening a lock. Alteration sorcery is the sorcerer's way of opening a lock. Professional assasins with no proclivity in, talent for or perhaps interest in magic learn to cat walk about and sneak carefully. Powerful magicians learn to cast spells of concealment.

A good thief doesn't need to learn magic in order to conceal a stolen ring from passers by, why should a master enchanter need to take up safecracking in order to slip into a locked room?

The fact that everyone will move the same speed means no more speedy mage. We will move even slower if you try to move backwards; a pure/light armor mage will likely need to play smart or at least won't think somewhat, unless they are hoping to getting beat down a lot.


We can only hope. :wavey:



What I wanted to get across, but failed to was that there are spells that people say break the game by making things skipable or w/e, but to me the spells I listed seem to do that as well, but don't seem to get any heat from people. :confused: something like that at least. . .

I answered "i don't care" on all counts, why because unless this became a MMO all of a sudden why does it matter? If it's over-powered don't use it, if it's weak find ways to make it useful, strategies is what makes these games fun and replayable.

I don't consider magic over-powered, but I think the combinations people are allowed to make a too powerful. However, I wouldn't care whether or not the combinations stay though. I would love to see some spells return.

You are entirely right about this. And the fireball would have to have some strict limitations on it. No blowing up like a roadside bomb and taking out a handful of enemies!!! lol

I loved levitation in Morrowind. In fact, when I realized the potential of that spell I used it half the time I was playing. But I also understand the developers dilemma, I think.

The problem is that levitation is fundamentally opposite of every other type of game play. The difference being that no other action allows you to take flight. To design an entire world to fit levitation would be to stunt other aspects of the game mechanics. The only way to really offset that disparity would be to restrict it in some areas as many have argued on this board. The idea that you can restrict a type of magic opens up another can of worms, meaning you should logically be able to restrict any type of magic which would create another disparity stunting large portions of game play. And if levitate WAS the only spell the Tamriel residents cared to restrict that would mean it would have more precedence than anything else. Flying would hold the importance of military spending in the US. Levitate would have to be a much greater portion of the game play for this to be fair, for instance every level 1 character would start with 10 sec. of levitation and so on. Not sure how clearly I explained that, but that's just an idea I had.

On the other hand I would love to have levitation back, but I think it would have to be a dominate feature in the game, like web slinging in a spiderman game.

Edit: This post wasn't really on point with the topic at hand and for that I apologize.

Since this is a single player game, more choices are always better, unless those choices lead to too many game breaking bugs of course.