Okay.. I feel this game has too many what I like to call "newb traps" in them. Basically certain weapons are "newb traps" and you wouldn't know it to be a newb trap unless you went online and looked it up or something. For example, the 1 machine pistol in the game is a complete newb trap. It is not good. its okay.. but if you really just want it for the knife you are better off with the seagle with rapid fire.

Now on to my point.. I reached level 20 playing as a heavy operative. I have NEVER EVER played a light character. I have never even selected the light build yet because I really don't care for it. What bothers me about being a heavy operative is how.. by picking operative as a heavy I just load on the cons and get almost no pros... for example, if you go heavy soldier you get the pros of being able to refill your LMG's anytime you want basically. If you go heavy medic you get the pros of being able to buff your life whenever you want. Same with engineer.. post up in a spot with your gatling turret I guess.

Now.. if you pick heavy operative.. you get a bunch of cons.. slower movement.. can't flank well. Can't refill your heavy weapons. Can't buff yourself.. large target so people will shoot you more often while hunching over a damn corpse to try and disguise.

Just nothing worthwhile seems to come out of being a heavy operative which isn't really fair because other classes benefit from which ever body type quite well.. Basically being a light or standard engy, medic or soldier is a good deal.. or heavy medic soldier engy.. but being a heavy operative is like the worst thing you could do it seems.

This is a flaw in the classes.. Also, I did some experimenting.. I played a game as security on container city against all humans. I started as my heavy operative.. I was doing okay.. then next game I switched to a standard type. I felt like I was able to do sooooooo much more! Lie it was simple as a standard to open the side door, run behind the MG, drop down and then run into the command post room. As a heavy I just can't do that The lumbering is easily spottable. So yeah, heavy operatives are basically gimps to every other heavy-[insert class here]

My main is my Operative. Please allow me to chime in.

I feel operatives are best in the light body. This gives you the easiest movement out of disguise, which is key after you break disguise. That's obviously a huge plus to playing a light.

Now, just because I prefer a light Op, doesn't mean I don't see the value of a heavy. There are a lot of people that play heavy Ops. One of the big advantages is that you move at the speed of the person you're disguised as. You can have your heavy weapon and heavy HP, but move as a light until you open fire. As a heavy you can pull off stuff like sneaking behind the enemy, throwing a sticky, then opening up with one of the heavy only machine guns. The fact that you move like what your'e disguised as is a minus for light builds, but a huge plus for heavies.

All the pros you mention for other classes work for any body type and are just pros of the class.

The heavy Op can't be played the same way as a light Op obviously, but the size has some benefits. Taking that added bit of damage while hacking, undisguising and suprising the enemy with a minigun, and the fact that enemies don't seem to think "heavy Op" so I have a lot more success with my cortex bomb because they come over to kill me instead of shooting me.

The problem with heavy anything is they just aren't balanced. And operatives really aren't a super great class either for much except farming XP and making the opposing team angry.

There was a competition of about 16 teams that played in a brink tourney 5v5... guess how many people played heavy? none. Guess how many people played light without a carb9/seahawk combo? very few. 3/5ths of almost every team was made up of medics and the rest were usually engi/engi or engi/soldier.

The heavy weapons are not good. The stats make them look great, but they just can't compare to most of the weapons a LIGHT can use. It takes less time to kill a heavy, as a light, with a PISTOL, then it does for a minigun to spool up or the first grenade from the eznade launcher to explode. That is broken, i don't think heavies need much more HP if any... I just think their weapons should be powerful. My heavy ran with every heavy gun I could, I started using some med weapons, then some light weapons, then I shifted my weight class to medium because I never used any of the heavy weapons over the med/lights. It's like the heavy weapons are balanced on the fact the heavy can take more damage, but in reality the extra 20hp only compensates for the larger hitbox. There's nothing a heavy with a minigun can do in this game a light with a carb 9 and a seahawk pistol can do better besides take a landmine.

After more carefully reading your original post it seems you dislike the heavy more than the operative. The heavy is not balanced, if you want to be competetive you have to pick light or medium. Its too slow, its weapons are too unreliable, its hitbox is too big and its HP pool is too low to have any advantage over a medium or light.

Hopefully a balancing patch is coming, I like the idea of a heavy... but in practice it fails.

but I love heavy operative! D:

Being able to tank as Operative would be good, and I'm not saying anyone who plays Heavy Op is instantly bad because that's not the case... but yeah, you DO end up with all the cons and none of the Pros. To be an Operative you need to be fast IMO. There's a lot of things people look to the operative to do, and being fast certainly helps. In my little team of friends, it's the Operative's job to collect all suitcase objectives, being a Heavy in that situation? Possible, but not the best.

The Belgo/Hockler w/ Extended mags is a LOT better than the Sea Eagle w/ Rapid Fire for point-blank encounters, just saying. Hold the trigger and the enemy goes down in a snap.

Also Heavy Operative can be effective for getting more done with a hack before dying, or if you use it for Recon rather than ninja-ing stuff... even then, I've had a couple good moments of popping up behind the enemy with a Hjammerdiem and laying waste to an entire front line with my allies attacking them front-on.

Seconded.

I use my Sea Eagle when I'm expecting a lot of long-lasting mid-range encounters without backup, and I have it scoped so I can use it as a sniper pistol (also, it looks hilarious with the COGA sitting on it) when it's needed. My main weapon is a Galactic, and I rely on that more, but the Sea Eagle is pretty brutal as well.

As for Heavy Ops, you obviously haven't gone to YouTube and searched for "Brink Minigun Backstab" - it's a good use for a Heavy Operative, especially if you do it when there are attackers in front of the enemy as well - a Heavy weapon appearing behind your team is REALLY disorienting. The extra health can also, as mentioned, help you get away with a little more focus on hacking, and a little less on fighting back.

I agree, they have the idea for heavies all wrong. A heavy's additional HP doesn't compensate fromt he fact that they have almost NO retreat ability because of lacking speed, their weapons need considerable buffs, they could use a slight HP buff because they are MASSIVE targets compared to the other body types.

I mean it takes some serious strategy to play a heavy class....and honestly that shouldn't be the case. Heavy's should be the ones storming rooms with guns blazing...not Lights....but in Brink that's how it is. Lights come in wall-running and all that jazz, while the Heavy has to play clean-up and only gets the leftovers....and that's just dumb IMO.

Heavies are seriously broken. They need to have even more health than they do now. They were compared to the heavies of team fortress before release, but they are nothing alike.

They're not MEANT to be the Heavies from TF.

If they were, they'd work the same.

They seriously do their jobs well if you use them right. Take advantage of their strengths and they win fights. Let enemies prey on their flaws and you go down (almost) as fast as anyone else.

The heavies are meant to give a player a different edge than the lights. The edge is there, too many people feel that there is no edge because a capable light with an SMG or LR can kill a heavy (why anyone thinks they shouldn't be able to is beyond me), but just one heavy with the appropriate skill and weapon can turn the tide of a battle.

As an Op they're not as useful if the Op is out trying to be a single distraction, but used as a Main Objective Op they are quite useful because of their ability to absorb the extra damage and tote crowd control weaponry. They need their team with them, but when they have their team they do have an edge over the light.

Originally I had said heavies were alright as they were but after playing three separate characters each one with a designated body type I sadly must agree. I find the light and medium body types to be far better then the heavy. My heavy is a medic/ soldier build and after extended use trying to figure out a good combo of weapons (heavy wep with accurate AR for far distance) I find that the heavy weps just aren't up to par with what the heavy is supposed to do. Most heavy weps must be used while standing still, crouched, or slightly moving (gotlung and chinzor) which makes the heavy and even bigger target. Couple this with the fact that heavies are bigger hit boxes with virtually no escapability and 80% of the time (guesstimate) you get a light with a SMG running circles around heavies and tearing them up while the heavy drops their health to maybe 10-20% before dying.

Its sad because the other body types seem to be much more effective in their roles. Lights are super fast and bounce around the entire level in the blink of an eye and are awesome for spraying on the move and avoiding fire but are quite squishy if they do get shot. Mediums are a good balance of the two giving more survivability and also a decent amount of maneuverability definitely enough to get away from danger or use an alternate route if the need arises. While heavies have big weapons and extra health that dont quite offset their lack of running skills in a game that says "never stop moving." Basically a heavy has to down whoever he gets into a firefight with ASAP because he isnt gonna be sprinting around a corner to reload or sprinting behind cover to avoid fire. I cant tell you how many times I have been in a close quarters situation with a gotlung spooled up ready to go and start firing first only to be put down by a medium / light with an smg at the last second before they go down. If they buffed the dmg of all heavy weps even by a little bit it would make the class that much more useful. When I think heavy I think tank, when I think tank I think heavy fire power and lots of armor. Like someone previously said heavies should be the first ones into rooms with guns blazing with medics right behind them to buff them up. Heavies should make people think "oh cr@p there's a heavy with a ___insert heavy weapon here____ I need to go another way or wait for backup" as opposed to the way it is now where when people see a heavy they think "haha look at that big meat box Im gonna run right up to him with my smg and take him down before his lil pee shooter can hit me twice."

I want to play as a heavy as even they can be fun when they work well but the way they are you are usually better off taking a medium body type for whatever build you may be making that's geared towards a heavy. I will continue to tweak my play style and tactics to see where the heavies sweet spot resides but so far there doesn't seem to be any

Personally I would have to say heavies in general have more cons then pros..

Hitbox is almost twice the size, which makes them extremly easy to spray down with hipfire.
Theyr fat, you'll see them and be able to shoot them long before they round the corner, meaning you get upperhand as light or medium.
They are slower and less agile.
Theyr guns are generally not better then lights or mediums.

They got alittle more hp.
Can use heavy weaponery (which isnt really much of a pro).

I've tried to play heavy on multiple occasions while I am still able to play to some extent, I personally feel like I am being held back when playing heavy.


The Heavy is simply to big of a target to have such minimal pros.

I usually play as a Defense Operative, if that even makes sense.

Caltrop Grenades are great to help cover choke points, especially against bots who like to group up.
Control Turret is also a nifty ability that you can use to cover an area and play defense w/out getting hurt.
Firewall Command Post, obviously.

Also, the bonus health you get can help when Hacking objectives. I don't think Heavy Operative is bad at all.

I don't know if you guys have seen the heavy weapons:

http://denkirson.xanga.com/738334226/brink/

It shows that they really don't do much more damage than SMG/AR's, sometimes less. Take in the fact that it takes as long to kill a heavy as a single unbuffed light using a smg to spool up the minigun and you have weapon imbalance. The heavy shotgun shows that its twice as powerfull on the in game charts, but as you can see by this ACTUAL chart... it does less damage per shot. It takes 2 shots with the heavy shotgun to kill with buff while it takes 1 with the buffed pump action, AND you have to revolve the cylinder every 2 shots. That adds up to the medium shotgun being more powerfull and having more kills to ammo than the heavy shotgun. If you look at the heavy GL it does less damage than the medium GL, but that seems ok since it is semi auto TBH. Now take into account the lacking accuracy of all the heavy weapons and you have not only unbalanced, but WORSE weapons for the heavies. This means that their only advantage is what? 40 more HP at the cost of a huge hitbox AND being unable to move out of the way of fire. Heavies ATM are playable, but not better than any of the other classes at anything.

Here's how I think you balance heavies:
1. On top of their health pool they have not, let their buffs scale by 20% so fully buffed with 1 universal, 2 med buffs and 2 command post buffs instead of it being [Light-220hp/Heavy-280hp] it would be [Light-220hp/Heavy-300hp]. This would mean unbuffed or after regenerating they wouldn't be different, but they could be more powerfull with buffs.

2. Give the semi auto shotgun the same damage as the pump

3. Give heavies an innate sustained fire accuracy boost. They are like 300 pounds of pure muscle, they should be able to hold SMG's very very steady, control the climb of AR's better, and AT THE VERY LEAST hold the heavy weapons steady under sustained fire. There is no reason to have suppressive fire in this game, noone keeps their head down because they know the heavy weapons aren't a threat. Suppressive fire works IRL and in combat sim games because you can put a steady stream of bullets downrange and ONE that snags you when you put your head up will kill you. In brink, the heavy weapons need to be a steam of unearthly might to put the fear of god into the lights.






Could this swing the balance in the heavies area? I dont think so. They still have to lug their huge bodies across the maps at less than half the speed of lights, they only get a health upgrade when buffed so solo heavies won't be wrecking balls, and the other classes still have their movement. You might though, see the first heavy being played in competetive touneys. The 5's tourneys that got broadcasted showed some of the imbalances of the game. It was 3 hours into the tourney before we first saw an operative and that was only because they were needed for the hacking obj. I never saw a single heavy. Most of the players were using smg's as their main weapon with some med's using AR's. The matches were won over half the time by who got the farthest, not who completed faster (defending teams have a clear advantage). And the MOST IMPORTANT, removing hackboxes was forbidden... and teams STILL couldn't complete the hack a third of the time. I hope SD was watching because it shows the shape of the game well.

No one suspects you're a spy when you're heavy.........
Heavies gain a +75% suspicion-reduction bonus!


yes to all of these. How could the developers miss this when they have access to these statistics? It's pure math. You don't even need testing to see these imbalances.

Also since this is an operative thread I figured I'd throw this little tidbit into the mix.


People get VERY VERY ANGRY when a medic stands over them and doesn't revive them. If you are an operative your first priority for a disguise is taking a human player's medic suit because when you are hanging out waiting for your oportunity to strike/spotting for your team... the other team is seeing this medic as a useless a**hole. When the time comes for them to help the medic out, they will let him die to get back at him for what YOU did. Or not buff his weapon, or not give him kevlar, or not give him ammo/support. It is kind of a d*** move, but that's what being an operative is all about.

EDIT: This first dawned on me when I was playing a match and took a medic's outfit in a competetive mode match. I was waiting for my team to get close while I racked up some points spotting the enemy team/mines. When my team made their first push they were pushed back a bit and there were 3 bodies on the ground next to me, I got bored with noone to spot so I walked around them spamming crouch to Tbag their whole team(not really on purpose, I just think it looks hilarious when people walk around like that), they didn't see me reveal myself later on and I didn't think anything of it. I guess they weren't using the VOIP because later on I was disguised as another player and I saw the enemy team intentionally TK their only medic 3 or 4 times until he left. Our team was able to take the the objective easily at this point and I lightbulbed.




Create confusion, create suspicion, split the team, turn them on each other, and strike when they are most vulnerable.

Throw a COGA on a Sea Eagle/Ritchie, and you essentially have a one-handed, miniature Rokstedi/Drognav. I use either of those when I'm using any SMG that isn't the Bulp, since they don't have the most reliable spread.

So you mean they're good for exactly what they were designed for?

I love wreaking havoc on the enemy team as an operative. :ninja: