Height and Weight customization?

Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Should Height and Weight be an option in character creation?

I am a 1.90m (6.3 feet) spaniard (European), and like to role play myself in Elder Scrolls. I feel Imperials appearance suits me best, and their abilities as diplomats and traders are just a perfect fit for my gaming style.

It takes me ages, but the face editor allows me to make my character look kinda similar to me. Since there is no Height/Weight option in character creation I end up with a much more smaller version of myself running around Cyrodiil, and that kills my immersion completely. :yuck:

I always end up choosing a Nord, and darkening their skin/hair/eyes to seem imperial, just to avoid feeling as a little Bosmer. The problem is that Nords favor combat over diplomacy, and I end up feeling as a stronger-but-dumber version of myself. :bonk:

I love and respect the elder scrolls lore, and understand Nords and Altmer are supposed to be taller than, for example, Imperials, but i feel there is room for some Height/Weight customization. Surely some Imperials are taller than others, and some Imperials might even be similar in height to the smaller Nords, don't you think?

I believe some restricted, lore friendly, height/weight customization should be possible, but what do YOU think?


Disclaimer!

Sorry if topic is repeated or misplaced, it's my first topic, and english isn't my first language, so don't go nuts on me.

I am aware that some mod will make this possible, but i will be forced to play Skyrim in the Xbox 360, so i hope this comes as an option in the vanilla version.

I am no technical or lore expert, if there is some real reason for avoiding this i would be happy to know.
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Daniel Lozano
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:22 pm

Yeah, height should be Lore friendly but even different races shouldnt be stuck down to one height, that would be unrealistic. Maybe the maximum height for an imperial is the minimum height for a Nord, so even though you can get a pretty tall imperial, you dont ruin Lore and Immersion by towering over the biggest race... you know, just things like that.
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Lisa
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:53 pm

Anyone who thinks it technically can't be done is wrong. Oblivion had it modded in, and Skyrim is using the same 3D model format as Oblivion. Different sizes and weights are completely within the realm of reason, and IMO, likelihood.

Edit: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4205
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Sheeva
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:18 pm

Anyone who thinks it technically can't be done is wrong. Oblivion had it modded in, and Skyrim is using the same 3D model format as Oblivion. Different sizes and weights are completely within the realm of reason, and IMO, likelihood.

Edit: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4205


There is a mod for everything right?

Anyway, if it isn't a technical problem, and it can be done so it remains lore-friendly... why don't they do it?

I would very much like to play as a tall Imperial in vanilla Skyrim!
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Keeley Stevens
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:00 pm

I'm tall in real life, so I like to play as a tall person in RPGs if I can. I tried to play a bosmer in Oblivion and I felt really freaked out that everyone was taller than me. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind playing a short and lithe orc, or a fat khajiit. It shouldn't be too hard of a concept at all to put in.
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loste juliana
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:41 am

Voted for the first one by accident.
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:39 am

Voted for the first one by accident.


Everybody seems to be voting for the "Yes, lore friendly" option then.

I thought there was a real reason behind the "no height/weight customization", but no one seems to think so.

Does anybody know if they are including this in Skyrim...?
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saxon
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:48 pm

Yeah I think you should definitely be able to alter your characters height, weight and build. It would need to have limits however, depending on what race you intend to play. I don't really like the idea of wood elves being taller than nords and high elves shorter than bretons, ect.
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Kill Bill
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:27 am

Those that voted "NO" could've posted their opinion...

I really would like to know why Height/Weight customization is not possible/recommended.

It seems most of you don't consider this an important issue... i fail to see how the lack of a pauldron-slot could be more important than being forced to have the same EXACT BODY SIZE than everyone of your race.

:facepalm:
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Nathan Hunter
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:53 am

I would love to be able to adjust the height of my character seeing as I'm 5'3 and quite content with being short, having the chance to do that in a game would be nice instead of being the usual pre-set tall size that characters in games usually are.

Creating a 5'3 female mage or warrior who can take down dragons would be a lot of fun.
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Ebou Suso
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:39 am

Weight should definitely be custom, Height should also but with a range of about 4-6 inchs from a set minimum height. For example Nords minimum height should be around 5ft 11 to 6ft, Bretons minimum height should be 5ft 3 to 5ft 6 depending on gender females shorter, males taller. As for what Skyrim has I have no idea, hopefully it's more enhanced this time around.
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Guinevere Wood
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:06 pm

Yay for this topic! I always thought we should be able to have different heights within a race instead of all just being set at one height. And weight? There should be big folks, skin and bones folks, and everywhere in between!
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JD FROM HELL
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:42 pm

I want a giant, emaciated Altmer!
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:55 am

I vote for it to be lore Friendly, But What if I wanna go all Tyrion Lannister up in this [censored]?!
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Chloe Yarnall
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:17 pm

I wrote a short thing up some time ago that explained how variations of 10% in height and weight could work, and how it could even alter things like run speed, jump height, encumbrance, and weapon damage that have been altered in Skyrim. Which would give the races more importance in deciding who to be. I could try to dig it up.
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KU Fint
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:59 pm

Creating a 5'3 female mage or warrior who can take down dragons would be a lot of fun.


Yes it would... dragons are in the game, you can choose to be a warrior or a mage, but... you cant choose your height? Why?

Weight should definitely be custom, Height should also but with a range of about 4-6 inchs from a set minimum height.


Exactly, that way it could be lore friendly too, Bosmer will still be short, but hey, different degrees of short!

I always thought we should be able to have different heights within a race instead of all just being set at one height. And weight? There should be big folks, skin and bones folks, and everywhere in between!


It's nice to see so many people agree, I just can't imagine why this isn't a confirmed Skyrim feature...
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D LOpez
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:06 pm

While height would be a nice feature I think Beth might a bit wary of implementing it as height is one thing that helps distinguish the different races (which they are pushing for this time round) and so for example you could potentially have small Nords and tall Imperials that are the same or similar height. Now if the faces/body shapes are really contrasting then there still might be immediate clear differences between the two but the height is definitely an effective way of differentiating.

Would I like to be able to change height (within reason)? Yes I would. It just depends how much it bridges the gap between the (human) races.
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JLG
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:07 pm

I wrote a short thing up some time ago that explained how variations of 10% in height and weight could work, and how it could even alter things like run speed, jump height, encumbrance, and weapon damage that have been altered in Skyrim. Which would give the races more importance in deciding who to be. I could try to dig it up.


If by altering height/weight you could also alter strength or speed that would be just awesome. it's simple and logical.

I would like to read it, of course. :foodndrink:
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matt white
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:09 am

I really would like to know why Height/Weight customization is not possible/recommended.



If you want your characters to be naked, then you can have them any height or weight you want. Clothing replaces the skin mesh (in games up to this one) so that if the character was dramatically out of size then clipping or parts of the avatar would look weird. You can see this in some clothing mods where each race has a clothing mesh and you have to choose which race you are (either in game or before you install the mod).

Most mods that change the shape of the NPC really just change the scale so that height and weight go up or down in proportion. Since the clothing changes with the scale, this works. However if you make a fat character for instance, it may very well have it's belly sticking out of the shirt, not just pushing the shirt out. Tall characters could end up wearing "high water" pants.
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Micah Judaeah
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:12 pm

Should Height and Weight be an option in character creation?
Absolutely. The more options the better.

If the options are there I think the devs are going to make each race have different lowest / maximum values. It would be great to know where these racial default limits are, but I'd at least like there to be the option to make a character that is special and unlike others of the same race. Someone could for example be shorter than everyone else because of a sickness. :shrug:
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Dale Johnson
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:04 pm

If you want your characters to be naked, then you can have them any height or weight you want. Clothing replaces the skin mesh (in games up to this one) so that if the character was dramatically out of size then clipping or parts of the avatar would look weird. You can see this in some clothing mods where each race has a clothing mesh and you have to choose which race you are (either in game or before you install the mod).

Most mods that change the shape of the NPC really just change the scale so that height and weight go up or down in proportion. Since the clothing changes with the scale, this works. However if you make a fat character for instance, it may very well have it's belly sticking out of the shirt, not just pushing the shirt out. Tall characters could end up wearing "high water" pants.


Thanks for your explanation, I didn't know it worked that way.

Anyway, maybe I didn't understood correctly, but I assume allowing the height of Nords to be chosen between lore friendly limits, such as "taller than the medium-sized Argonian and smaller than medium-sized Altmer" should then be possible?

I assume absurdly tall/small or fat/thin characters problematic, but could some small, lore friendly adjustments be possible? If not, could you elaborate why?
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Alexander Horton
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:11 pm

Some customization is nice, but definitely not much.

You have to consider that many environments are designed for specific things. Tight spaces in dungeons or houses & doors and such. Height and weight customization works, as long as it works within these environments. Therefore, it definitely can't be too much customization.
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Eliza Potter
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:04 pm

Thanks for your explanation, I didn't now it worked that way.

Anyway, maybe I didn't understood correctly, but I assume allowing the height of Nords to be chosen between lore friendly limits, such as "taller than the medium-sized Argonian and smaller than medium-sized Altmer" should then be possible?

I assume absurdly tall/small or fat/thin characters problematic, but could some small, lore friendly adjustments be possible? If not, could you elaborate why?



I have not tried out all the clothing mods. However some I tried back in the day had terrible issues on some races with shoulders sticking out of the clothing or heads being covered up partially by shirts etc. Small changes are probably possible, but I know the pains that the good clothing modders went through to get their clothing to work on all races. A clothing modder would be better able to explain the specific issues.

One example of this is the armor for males and females. If you put an exclusive male armor on a female, well, the female not longer has the bumpy bits that make her look like a female, at least from the neck down. So, there are female and male versions of the armor. Now, briasts are not that much of a difference between different characters as far as size and shape goes, but it is enough to require gender specific armor models.
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roxxii lenaghan
 
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Post » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:11 pm

If by altering height/weight you could also alter strength or speed that would be just awesome. it's simple and logical.

I would like to read it, of course. :foodndrink:

Lucky, it was on the last page of my posts. Easy to find, not yet deleted.

Say you're making an Imperial who has a base height of 10 (arbitrary measurement). Pretend also that character creation allows you to vary a character's height by 10% of its base, so you can make an Imperial with a height of 9 or 11 or anything in between.

Say also that your base weight is equal to your current height. This can be changed too by 10%. If I made my Imperial the default of 10 height, I can set his weight to be between 9 and 11. If I made him have a height of 9, my base weight would be 9 as well but could vary between 8.1 and 9.9.

The height/weight ratio then defaults to 1.0, but can vary between 1.11111 or 0.90909 (best to round it to 1.1 and 0.9). This ratio cannot be changed directly, but can be changed by moving around the weight.

Now say that the character has two hidden attributes "dmg" and "spd". They start at 100 and represent a percentage of the default damage and speed. dmg is multiplied by weight/10, and spd is divided by the ratio of height/weight. So, characters that are heavy do the most damage, and characters that are light for their height (regardless of actual weight) run faster. Remember that even though dmg only depends on weight, weight depends on height. So a taller character has a higher maximum and minimum weight than a shorter character.

You could even add two other hidden attributes, "enc" and "acr" or something which represent maximum encumbrance and maximum jumping height/distance as a percentage of default. enc could be multiplied by height/weight so that characters heavy for their height (regardless of actual weight, low center of gravity and whatnot) can carry more. jmp could be divided by weight/10, so lighter characters jump higher. Again, shorter characters have a lower minimum and maximum weight, so they'll typically jump higher.

The numbers can and should be invisible to the player, really. It should be made clear to them that the taller and heavier they make their character the harder he'll hit but the lower he'll jump, etc.Say you're making an Imperial who has a base height of 10 (arbitrary measurement). Pretend also that character creation allows you to vary a character's height by 10% of its base, so you can make an Imperial with a height of 9 or 11 or anything in between.

Say also that your base weight is equal to your current height. This can be changed too by 10%. If I made my Imperial the default of 10 height, I can set his weight to be between 9 and 11. If I made him have a height of 9, my base weight would be 9 as well but could vary between 8.1 and 9.9.

The height/weight ratio then defaults to 1.0, but can vary between 1.11111 or 0.90909 (best to round it to 1.1 and 0.9). This ratio cannot be changed directly, but can be changed by moving around the weight.

Now say that the character has two hidden attributes "dmg" and "spd". They start at 100 and represent a percentage of the default damage and speed. dmg is multiplied by weight/10, and spd is divided by the ratio of height/weight. So, characters that are heavy do the most damage, and characters that are light for their height (regardless of actual weight) run faster. Remember that even though dmg only depends on weight, weight depends on height. So a taller character has a higher maximum and minimum weight than a shorter character.

You could even add two other hidden attributes, "enc" and "acr" or something which represent maximum encumbrance and maximum jumping height/distance as a percentage of default. enc could be multiplied by height/weight so that characters heavy for their height (regardless of actual weight, low center of gravity and whatnot) can carry more. jmp could be divided by weight/10, so lighter characters jump higher. Again, shorter characters have a lower minimum and maximum weight, so they'll typically jump higher.

The numbers can and should be invisible to the player, really. It should be made clear to them that the taller and heavier they make their character the harder he'll hit but the lower he'll jump, etc.


I think I messed up Encumbrance and run speed. Run speed should be multiplied by Height/Weight because lighter characters should run faster. Encumbrance should be divided because heavier characters should carry more.

Summary:

Melee Damage = Regular damage x Weight/10
Jump Height/Distance = Regular jump / Weight/10
Run Speed = Regular speed x Height/Weight
Max Encumbrance = Regular encumbrance / Height/Weight
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Kelsey Hall
 
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Post » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:43 am

I have not tried out all the clothing mods. However some I tried back in the day had terrible issues on some races with shoulders sticking out of the clothing or heads being covered up partially by shirts etc. Small changes are probably possible, but I know the pains that the good clothing modders went through to get their clothing to work on all races. A clothing modder would be better able to explain the specific issues.

One example of this is the armor for males and females. If you put an exclusive male armor on a female, well, the female not longer has the bumpy bits that make her look like a female, at least from the neck down. So, there are female and male versions of the armor. Now, briasts are not that much of a difference between different characters as far as size and shape goes, but it is enough to require gender specific armor models.


Thanks again for your explanation, i see your point now.

I hope small changes are truly possible, since just a little height or weight variation could make such a difference in NPC variety an player customization.

I would really enjoy to be surprised in my travels by finding truly unique NPCs, in the "wow, those Orcs seem bigger, let's avoid them" kind of way.
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Anthony Santillan
 
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