I noticed in a few games of TES, especially Redguard, say "Go to Hell" or "Burn in Hell, so-and-so" or something to that effect. Does this mean the same Hell as Christians believe in?

Also, I read the Loveletter, and it doesnt make a lot of sense, but I tried to make sense out of most of it. So is there an actual overall God?

I am no lore buff, but I would have to say no.
From my understanding TES is a polytheist universe.

Hell is a word which some men use to describe Oblivion. Aedra and daedra, I believe, are elven terms.

The human equivalents are Gods and Demons. Gods in Heaven and Demons in Hell.

However the 3 demons that arent so demon-sih are Azura, Boethiah, and someone else, I forget.

Not a Christian hell, but you get the idea. Damnation, maybe Oblivion.

God as in Godhead. I don't know how to explain that to you exactly. Think of it this way; there are lots of souls, there used to be fewer, and there used to be two. Before that is one, God. "Those who do not fail become the New Men: an individual beyond all AE, unerased and all-being. "

Alessians seemed to think so.

But that was more like a soup of gods than any single G-d that defines itself like Yahweh or newer ideas of God.

Isn't the Norse bad afterlife Hel? One L.

No, its just an expletive; and its often used to refer to Oblivion. But that does NOT mean that it is in any way similar to the Christian Hell concept; it is not a place were 'bad people' go when they die, its just another part of the universe (though some people may actually go there when they die). And no, there is no overall 'God'. What the Loveletter refers to is a way of transcending the universe and becoming for all intents and purposes 'God'. However this God is not the same as the Christian God either...

That sounds like the whole Aurbis: Soup.

Demon isn't really a description of appearance. More a term for those supernatural beings we reject. Which is why in this http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/sithis.shtml, Anu-iel is labelled a demon, or how Ashtaroth, who would probably have a quite agreeable image and was worshipped as a god of fertility, is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon#Jewish_rabbinic_literature in the Jewish tradition. Demons can be beautiful, like a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus, as Azura arguably is, or an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_%28film%29.

Also, since we're on the subject, the "Demon Principilaties", as Battlespire called the Daedric Realms, is an awesome name for them.

It's used just as an expression. Oblivion exists, but it's not a plane of damnation, it's just a Daedric plane that represents Mehrunes Dagon's qualities as the Daedric lord of destruction.

There are the Nine and they are gods, so it's polytheist. Some people worship Daedra, also, which aren't necessarily evil. Albides, why is Azura a "femme fatale" or a "succubus" (your link)? She's actually one of the Daedric princes that are considered "good" or at least, not evil. I don't think the Daedra should be called "demons". They're not supposed to be demons.

Mehrune's Dagon's plane is a realm of Oblivion. The word Oblivion itself does not specifically refer to Dagon's plane.


It is frowned upon in most cultures. Dunmer are the exception, and even that's conditional. Hence the demon attribution.


On femme fatale; see Vehk on the subject. She's not the classic sort of femme fatale who seduces to achieve a result. But she is - or rather, can be- a dangerous and manipulative woman. Which is why Vivec turns a http://www.imperial-library.info/characters/trial_vivec.shtml into a trial against her. I've always quite liked her, personally, and would agree that she appears good and seems to have genuine ties to the mortal world (as revealed in Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi). Some would be more critical and point out that she allegedly cursed an entire race for the actions of three individuals, and still held a grudge for a few thousand years.

On succubus, she isn't. I was giving an example of a beautiful demon.

A relevant quote by a dev found http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/:

On Daedra as Good or Evil: As some have said, they are neither. Some are certainly more aggressive than others. Some have a greater tolerance for mortals. But, I wouldn't say that any are good or evil. Some people think of Azura as a "good" Daedra. That could end up being a very dangerous misconception in the Elder Scrolls world.

See also what I originally said: "Demon isn't really a description of appearance. More a term for those supernatural beings we reject."


I don't doubt she can seem benevolent to some. Conventional wisdom says that neither the ones who seem good nor the ones that seem evil really are what we think they are. They're largely amoral.

I rather like this quote on the subject in the Sermons:

'But then why, you ask, do the Daedra wish to meddle with the Aurbis? It is because they are the radical critique, essential as all martyrs. That some are more evil than others in not an illusion. Or rather, it is a necessary illusion.'

I interpret this to mean they're seen as antagonists. Obstacles to overcome to better oneself.

Finally, I'll add another MK quote onto the pile.

1. Hell commonly means oblivion as was previously pointed out.
2. People don't go to oblivion when they die they go to Aethrius(sp?) and bad and good people both go to aethrius so no it isn't like the christian heaven, its a hole in space where all the gods escaped to after Lorkhan tricked them.


Sorry If I made a mistake O wise lore-khans

:lol: this makes me chuckle.

"its a hole in space where all the gods escaped to after Lorkhan tricked them."

anyways...

more likely people would end up in oblivion (god-planet or demon principality) than to aetherius.

The last time i was there i didn't see The spirits of the dead...

What made you chuckle about my previus post? i haven't been researching lore that long and i make mistakes :shrug:

Well, typically...

but the afterlife is more complicated than "going to Aetherius." it's a bit murky for me, some others suggested very well going through the Dreamsleeve.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=714862&view=findpost&p=10316539

Yeah I don't think it's anything like what we have in real life...this is polytheistic stuff, much like several ancient civilization believed in many gods/goddesses

Tell that to the people in the Shivering Isles.

Except when their souls are captured by a Daedric Prince/Necromancer/Mankar Camoran/ect, that's the exception that confirms the rule.

I don't think this is worth examining. TES lore is firmly based on real world religion, fork lore, philosophy, and literature.

As for the Love Letter, I've just stopped thinking about it. 5E 911 is just too obvious, and it's just a comment on society with the usual MK nonsense.

I found the LoveLetter one of MK's best pieces, tbh. The 911 sentiments wore off on me, probably becuase I'm not American and not so empathetic with the tragedy of the day.

I still don't understand what he means by "Digitals", and it sound quite silly also... but then, the silly ones are often the most important.

The "911" is related to birthday of Kurt Kuhlmann, isn't it?

Et'Ada, lesser Ada, spirits, what ever mystical being in that vein you can fit in there context wise.

You are (probably more than) half wrong. The Loveletter is crucial.

Crucial is it? I see it as a tangent; an unnecessary one. Digitals? c0da? What am I supposed to do with this? anolyze it? The only concepts in the Love letter are just rewordings of past topics. Put 5E on it and suddenly it's noteworthy. Slap in some completely alien terms and suddenly it's profound! I don't buy into this hype, nor will I ever join the throngs of Love letter forum philosophers.