Torbjorn Shatter-shield.

There's also the shattershield who says they're half what nord workers are, though. It's all of them really. Nords Dunmer and argonian tension.

I actually don't think Brunwulf is lying, as it makes sense that Ulfric would only help those worth his time and who help him. Also the rule of one source uncontradicted. Which is fine. If Brunwulf is telling the truth, because nothing contradicts him, then people can't deny that the Decree of Monument is also true because there isn't a source to contradict it.

This basically already explains things rather well:

? You just don't like snow.

True, then that's one to one.

I don't think he's lying, I think he's got it in his head that Ulfric won't help non-Nords (which lets him step into the hero role) and he interprets everything by that assumption. Which to be fair to him, is supported by the fact that Ulfric is primarily concerned with giving Nords sovereignty over Skyrim.

Minnesota has one of the lowest suicide rates, so there's that.

If Ulfric was a racist I doubt he'd allow Altmer to settle in his city and especially set up successful businesses.

I'd rephrase that to "If Ulfric was more racist than the norm in Tamriel, I doubt he'd allow Altmer to settle in his city and especially set up successful businesses."

I don't think anyone would argue that Ulfric is pro-Nord. What I don't get is what makes him more racist than anyone else in Tamriel, and how the Stormcloaks themselves are a racist faction. Faction with racists =/= racist faction.

True, practically everyone in tamriel is racist. People mistake racism for prejudice.

Me? I remember looking up from the chopping block. Though I play an outsider to Skyrim and couldn't care less about either side, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I've always liked the idea of sovereignty in Tamriel, never liked the Imperial Cult, Mages Guild or House Hlaalu in Morrowind, was bored by the Empire in Oblivion and wasn't that big a fan of them in Skyrim either. My dislike of the Imperials goes back long before the White Gold Concordat or the Mede Dynasty, I've just always preferred Tamriel as a true 'Arena' and when we visit areas we truly learn about the culture of the local inhabitants. Yet every single game we have the same pseudo-Romans trying to enforce their boring views and lifestyle upon the remaining traditionalists in the region, and while this was used as a vehicle of change in Morrowind very effectively, in Skyrim it just seemed that most of the Nord's homeland was simply Northern Cyrodiil. We didn't even see a shrine to Shor or Kyne anywhere.

Was thrilled to learn we could fight against them in Skyrim, but it seems Bethesda keeps shoving the same boring Empire down our throats, even more than the Blades.

Kyne = Kynareth, so yes, there are shrines to her/him. Many consider Short and Talos just aspects of each other at this point in time , so i guess you could say Shor has statues as well.

The Imperials are a subset of Nords actually. if you read the lore, St. Alessia started the 9 divines religion by combining aspects of both Altmer and nordic religions so both the the Ayleids who helped her and the Humans could share a religion without butting the other one out, that and they were basically the same people with different names anyway. The imperials were the nords who lived in Cyrodiil under the rule of the Ayleids

Kyne does not equal Kynareth. Kyne is the nordic interpretation. Goddess of the storm. Not the hippie Imperialized Kynareth. There are no shrines to Kyne.

Although I may not feel quite so strongly about it, I have to say I'm inclined to agree with you.

The Empire can be a bit suffocating after a while - particularly when it is essentially suppressing culture.

If only giving them the boot out of Skyrim had even the slightest noticeable difference regarding the Nords 'restored' traditional culture (I guess it would take time).

Imagine what it would be like if the Empire legitimately ended up crumbling, and each province returned to an independent kingdom.

Although that could end up being pure chaos, I personally would love to see something like that happen to the canon.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kyne

It says here that many followers of the nine divine do consider them one and the same, and if you believe in Talos than that generally means you believe in the nine divines.

*brofist* Give Bethesda credit, they let us tell the imperials where to shove it this time.

Kyne=/ Kynareth. Kynareth is a made-up mishmash of Kyne and Y'ffre.

Nords mixed with Heartlanders, but they're not the same. That was propaganda put forth by the empire to promote its brand. Understandable, from a political standpoint, but it's inaccurate.

I prefer to think of them as "guests", along with the Dark Elves there. If it were for me, I'd treat them exactly as that: show them the famous Nord hospitality (more or less like the Skaal do), proudly telling them about all the good places, taverns, Nord culture and traditions, etc..but never forgetting that, as guests, sooner or later they'd have to leave.

Only those RARE individuals who'd FULLY embrace Nord traditions and way of life would be considered of being settled in Skyrim. And I bet most of those kind would be Redguards...

They considered Alduin and Akatosh the same too. What did you learn?

To Dovakhan

Would your same logic apply to a Nord living in Morrowind or the Summerset Isles (pre-Thalmor)? Otherwise I find it insulting that somebody who simply wants to set up a successful life in Skyrim without causing any harm or damage to the local population to 'sooner or later having to leave.'

Also, many Nords in Skyrim don't live a 'Nord way of life.'

The Nords willing joined the empire, and it was a NORD who created it in the first place. That is a fact in lore.

And? It's still Imperial governed. And they made it a point to imperialize others. So what does your point do to anything she said?

that is was not propaganda. Nords and imperials are basically the same. the same way all the elven races are, they are all related to the Aldmer. MAjor difference is, the nords and imperials were only changed by geography and beliefs. The one time the Empire is having issues and the Stormcloaks get up and try to leave to let the empire they helped create.

1) Yes, of course, if the people of that province demands it.

2) Mostly those snobs at Solitude. But it's Ulfric's task to make all the Nords remember that their way of life is marvelous, and that is worth keeping it. That's what a leader is for.

First of all, this "one time" is a pretty BIG one, wouldn't you say? Or I guess, being arrested for worshiping a god and killed and tortured is no big deal to you. And nords and imperials are not the same. Not anymore. Even when they didn't exist, the Colovians were not nords. Why should they stay loyal to an Empire that is no longer deserving of them or themselves? This talk of loyalty to a distant ruler sounds familiar.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Isa_Raman

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Arentus_Falvius

^Imperials imposing on Nords.

1. It is the Thalmor who banned Talos worship, not the Empire, who really want to go to war to get rid of the thalmor and would LOVE having Skyrim's help in all of it. Rikki worships Talos regularly, and Tullius does not care. There is a gigantic statue of Talos in Whiterun with a Crazy Talos worshipper (who is not crazy because he worships talos, he just is) and no one does anything about it, even when part of the Imperial Army is right there.

2. Those are TWO examples and both seem insane anyway.

3. IF nords and Imperials are completely different people, then please explain to me how He was a Nerd, but his descendants were considered Imperials. There is also that Rumor he might have been a Breton, not a Nord, but lets not talk about that.

Also, Both are descendants of the Nedes.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nede

EDIT: OP, this is what these threads end up becoming, no exceptions.

Then explain this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Talos_Mistake ...and please, read who wrote it. Also, please let me remark the last paragraph. It is lovely

Also, Whiterun is neutral in the conflict at the beginning of the game. And the only Legion bootlicker there is that Battle-Born guy (which I don't understand why he hasn't died in battle when the Stormcloaks took the city. Probably suffered from a serious case of lack of guts).

I think many of us agreed a while back, that the book was written as while the Thalmor were watching. As in, you're writing that book while a Thalmor agent is behind you.