so, your proof is from a book you have never actually read, and that does not seem to be mentioned on sites about TES lore...

Sounds Legit...

So you never read the actual book yet??? so how do you know it says anything about it. UESP has pretty much every bit of lore in the game. It would definitely have something as major as that recorded somewhere.

We'll need to wait till that happens then. Can't use it as a source when none of us can check on what you are saying. I'm all for believing the Elder Council is Thalmor bought. But not without proof or something pointing to it. Motierre and maybe a few others. Or just him. But not the whole council.

It would not surprise me if Motierre was payed off in anyway. but i cannot see most of the Elder council being like that. Also, considering Titus Mede had a daedric artifact, it seems really stupid to try and choose him because he was easy to control.

It seems as if this guy is talking about his own headcanon and actually believes it is official canon for whatever reason.

Its just the plot. I'm sure the actual book may have something that "may" suggest it. But to say the entire council was bought is an extreme exaggeration. You yourself haven't even read the book yet.

Wow. I kept seeing your posts about this believing I must have missed something when reading the book(to be honest I've forgotten most of what I read in them). Maybe I should read again them myself and find out when I have the time. What book was it specifically that suggested that?

OT: Flip a coin. It'll be much easier. Or you can do research and come to your own conclusion. Or just do the one you personally like without thinking about it too much.

This isn't a black and white subject, the pros and cons of both sides are very debatable. You gotta reach a conclusion on your own.

I think that's basically the point the OP is at.

They know the ins and outs of each side and are having trouble deciding which one outweighs the other.

Op should youtube The Senile Scribbles V: Skyrim part 1. The ending should help him figure out which side to pick.

Option C: Kill wicked Valdar and put Hevnoraak - the Truest existing Nord "alive" today - on the Snow Throne.

Thanks to everyone who contributed something positive to this discussion. It helped a lot.

And to everyone else who whined about the thread, I would say that it seems the only negative thing about a thread such as this is the people complaining about it. One of the great things about what Bethesda did was paint a picture that is neither black nor white, encouraging discussion and debate. The fact that you are against that is sad.

First, is your character the type that would fight in a war?

Second, have you completed Season Unending?

For some reason, I quite like this question a lot.

+1 internetz for you.

We weren't whining. Just stating that by now you should have an answer.

There are some parallels between Tiber Septim, Wulfharth, and the parleying with the Tribunal, and the Empire, Ulfric Stormcloak, and the parleying with the Thalmor. Like all anologies though, the perfect anology is to compare something to itself, which defeats the whole purpose of anology. The Tribunal, unlike the Thalmor, do not have world domination/subjugation/annihilation on the brain, and also didn't give unfairly imbalanced agreement terms at the point of a sword.

Sounds like whining to me.

And after two years, I still do not. I think Bethesda does not get enough credit for that. they did a great job with realistically depicting a war - there never really is a good guy. I'm not sure I'll ever have an answer.

Do you have any idea how many TIMES this debate has occured?! Any idea?? And out of ALL of the debates since the game came out, discussing virtually the SAME ARGUMENTS the only true conclusion that both sides can agree upon is "agreeing to disagree".

This is the type of decision you have to make, based on what the actual game gives you. Because all you're going to get here, is biased opinions from both sides. Spanning for another 7 pages in just one hour. With no resolution.

Heck, it's getting to the point where even ColonelKillaBee is sick of debating it.

Why would they want him dead? He's the one who signed that treaty.

Well... have you considered that he may have bought it recently?

So why not ignore the thread if you don't like it? It is a single thread in a whole forum. Your life will be just fine.

That is very true. Anyone who believes that there is a good guy in any one of these insurgencies going on throughout the world today is quite naive.

He is a she, and I bought at launch.

I still have no idea which side I choose. I disagree with too many things on both sides.

Tough.

It really doesn't seem like a hard question to me. But I'm a decisive individual and come up with conclusions quickly after I'm presented with the positives and negatives. Everyone is different. Still, nearly 2 years? Either you haven't read enough CW threads, or you fuss over small details too much. Like when you said you "realized" Ulfric is a racist bigot. Lets pretend that there was actual proof of this. Does that really matter in the grand scheme of things? Does the man that rules do anything to the cause itself?

This man gets it.

Ulfric's racism matters a lot to me. I would never support such a xenophobic isolationist. And the proof is in the way he treats the Dunmer in Windhlem, to say nothing of the Argonians.

I've seen him around discussing Skyrim a while ago.