Hi all,

I just started to play morrowind again after 5 or 6 years with overhaul mod. I had some question with what char to use and I got help. Great community here.

Now I have another problem: Leveling!

I decided I will not go to powerlevel in this game. Poweleveling destroyed my pleasure in lots of games that I loved .... I decided I will not use enchantment skill to make super powerful items that destroy purpose of skills. I decided I will just enjoy game and level when game tells me so. I knew that I can raise every skill if I use it, so picking maj/min skills was not a big deal.

Bu than .... I started to play game and was very happy with how it is going. Great atmosphere and beginner questing in Seyda Neen was great and I was looking forward to play more. My Acrobatics/Athletics skill went up very fast just from running/jumping and my mage skills went up also. I was on my way to Balmora when I suddenly remembered: what about attributes!!!! Suddenly i remembered multipliers and I went to internet to read about abilities. And this is when I sopped playing and cannot continue!!! damn!!!

Problem: I looked in my skills and I noticed that I will soon level and maybe have str multi of 2x and speed multi of 3x with strx2 and intx2. So I will get around 7 points, but 15 is max! Then I read that I can end with very bad character if i not keep looking how i level! And this is making me go nuts! What to do now? If i have to plan what skills I must and must not use to level where is enjoyment in game?

So I have following questions:
1. If I continue to go not looking at all what my multipliers will be, will I come to the point in game when i will not be able to progress further?
2. How fast should I level? With trainers in game I can level skills that I want very fast. I mean, I am in Balmora now still lvl 1 and I can see being lvl 1 for a long time. When should I lvl to 2? I can do it in Seyda Neen but what is the point then?

I am so confused ... Can someone suggest how should I play and not to have to powerlevel and use shortcuts....

thx in advance
Aarionn

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=2030

Use a leveling mod like Madd leveler or Galsiah's character development (GCD). Madd's just automates the vanilla system so that as you gain skills, the associated attributes raise on-the -fly. Over the long term, this gives you about 11 raises per level, not as much as maxing out at 15 but totally painless, and reasonable. GCD is more of a total rethink. Check the readme or one of the threads here for more info. Unlike the vanilla approach, GCD rewards you for making the skills you use most majors and minors. The downside, of course, is that misc skills are harder to raise and have less affect on attributes.

Thanks very much! I will check that mod now.

OMG! I am just reading GDC readme and .... my head hurts ... Maybe because it is almost midnight here.


I hope to find some easier explanations how does module works... Well I will try to read it tomorrow at work

Thx for trying to help ppl

Hi Aarionn, I installed GCD to use in my game and am playing it now. I can't explain how it works (I trusted other people's comments instead), but I can say it's fun because I don't worry anymore about how many multiples that any particular attribute is going to level up. At one time, I did try to play so as to get the 5x5x5 increases, and the game wasn't fun, just like you discovered. I recommend trying GCD and, if you can, don't worry about trying to hit 100 in your various attributes; if it happanes, that's great but it doesn't keep you from enjoying the game.

Good luck,
John

I don't know what the thing you read was talking about saying you'll end up with a bad character if you don't watch how you level, even if you mess about all the time you're effectively invulnerable between levels twenty and thirty depending on your equipment, stats and talent at the game. Letting stats raise naturally as you go about your business instead of powergaming just means you'll take a few extra levels to become invincible. I'm pretty awful at the game but the few characters I've managed to get to level thirty have been effectively indestructable.

Nothing in your post suggests that you're actually struggling at all so just try to let your character level up naturally like you were doing before you decided to read what I'm thinking is a pretty flawed guide about levelling. Even if you are struggling, trying to get slightly better equipment can make a world of difference.

Hi JH2011 Thx much for your answer. I will certainly try GDC. It seems it is what I was looking for.



Hi Glass, thx for your answer. There are several posts and also guides that specifically state that if you are not looking into how you level and what your multipliers are, character that you make can get in trouble. As you seems to know much about it, let me ask you ( and others) a few questions.

1. I am willing to give it a try your way, i.e. just playing game with not bothering what my multipliers and attributes are. My question is: With a set of my current maj/min skills, I did all the quests in Seyda Neen and I explored that region. I am also now doing quests for Mage/Thief and Fighter guild in Balmora. BUT I am still Lvl1 with only 3/10 points in level. Will I get in trouble? Will I have to do something to "force" me to go to lvl 2?

2. How fast should I level? Should I just follow the quests and when I get to something I cannot do, I go to trainers and lvl if not able through normal gaming? Leveling through trainers although legit n game seems like cheating a little (imho doesn't feel right... too cheap also)

Thx very much for helping me.

Best,
Aarionn

Eventually some quests will become too hard to do at your level, it has to otherwise every level is pointless. You shouldn't need to force yourself to level if you get stuck, just go and do something else until you level a bit and manage to get hold of some better stuff (especially potions). There's a Fighter's Guild quest near Caldera I can see probably causing problems but that's because there's more enemies than previous quests and is easily solved by bringing health potions which you should be doing anyway. If you get stuck do some quests for other guilds you're in until you get stuck there as well. This should earn you some points towards a level up and some money which should go towards better gear and more potions. Potions let you get through far harder stuff than you could otherwise. Early on when you level you might want to go specifically for attributes that you're using a lot though, I don't mean powergame them, but say you've got a x2 in strength as a warrior (example) I'd personally consider that more important than a x3 in intelligence for the same guy. I'm regularly finishing every Fighters Guild and Mages Guild quest in Balmora easily starting at level one and I'd consider myself pretty bad at the game, although the nature of some of them means I naturally level up while I'm at it. There's a Mage's Guild quest where you're sent to a couple of places near a lake, they're a long way from Balmora but close to each other and you face a lot of enemies so this is awesome for gaining levels.

You shouldn't need to use the trainers for anything other than raising very hard to raise skills to usable levels (sneak to 45+ for example) or for going up in the ranks of certain guilds. Some people might disagree but your equipment and skills mean far more than levels as far as I'm concerned, it's not really until you get quite far through guilds where levels start to matter, if only because you need the extra attributes to not get beaten up.

Really it's best to just relax and enjoy playing and don't worry about getting stuck, it's generally easy to get yourself out of getting stuck through the means I've mentioned already. There's other stuff I can think of but it's character specific so do you mind telling me what your major and minor skills are if you still need help? Don't worry about having bad majors and minors by the way, the way Morrowind works means that pretty much any character can be made to work, even bare fisted monk types.

GCD attacks the vanilla levelling system at two major points. (among other things)

-defocus skills
-emphasize character generation

Defocus skills: in vanilla every skill has a single governing attribute, which it increases. With GCD skills influence more than one attribute. Say Illusion influences Personality in vanilla, and in GCD, being a magic school, it influences Personalty and to a lesser extent Intelligence and Will power too. Or Heavy Armor increases Strength as well. This means you arent forced anymore to powerlevel a specific skill if you need a specific attribute. Say in vanilla you wont get any Intelligence from casting Illusion spells. This doesnt even make sense. Not so in gcd.

Chargen: Its no secret and fairly obvious that in vanilla putting any useful skill in min/major is a penalty and just shooting yourself in the foot. And can be downright deadly. Say you put acrobatics and athletics on majors. Bunny hop to Balmora and end up with a levelled char who can do nothing but jump and run, facing dremoras. Every useful skill in vanilla, with a few exeptions, must be put in Misc. maj/mins are just for controlled levelling.

Now what GCD does here is making starting skills affect attribute progression for the whole game. Want strength? - have lots of str-skills. Want more int? Invest in magic skills. This seamlessly leads to a character specialization. No more selecting just long blades will make you an uber fighter. Or let alone grinding swords from misc 5, to 100. Your combat attributes will just increase too slow. So wanting to be a fighter in GCD, a player must make sure he has selected lots of combat skills. this again seamlessly fits to Morrowinds character classes. In vanilla who cares if a Redgard or a Nord have +10 to each weapon skill. With GLC this selection now makes sense, because increased combat skills will boost their combat attributes progression, like strength. Same goes for mages. No more selecting just one magic skill will make a char an archmage. Similarly, equally spreading skills, will make a jack of all trades. But he too will have to have different skills selected, and not all magic.

Funny thing is, i tried to make an "optimal" GCD mage and to my surprise it was almost exact like the default "mage" class. Same with the fighter. Default classes are not utter garbage anymore, and can actually be selected now. This again shows how well thought actually GCD is.

Glass, thx very much for your answer. I must say that I really like your view of how the game should be played. I made following char: Dark Elf; Atronach; Endurance and Luck; MAJ: Alternation, Conjuration, Marksman, Mysticism, Illusion ; MIN: Alchemy, Enchant, Short Blade, Security, Light Armor. I am thinking of playing it as a Thief/Mage build, with a lot of sneaking and opening every lock (not with help of enchant though).



Hi Dvsdv, thx for answer. Just as I thought that I will take Glass advice you came in with this answer and now I am again inclined to give GDC a try!

I have one question though. Let's say I don't have any strength governing skills in my maj/min group. How far will I be able to get strength attribute up if I level those skills to let's say 100?

Thx much. I very much appreciate all the help. I am currently still in Balmora while my load at work increased dramatically in the last week and will continue till the end of next week.

Best,
Aarionn

With GCD, it depends pretty much on the specific skill and how much it affects each "secondary" attribute. One thing that's VERY noticable is that unless you work at raising multiple armor skills, and CONSTANTLY keep raising them, you'll fall well behind a vanilla character in hitpoints. You only gain hitpoints when your Endurance attribute increases, NOT with each level. That's actually less of a problem for a thief or pure mage character who's going out of his/her way NOT to get hit in the first place, but a "semi-fighter" in particular is going to end up far short on Endurance and hitpoints, which is a REAL problem if you later try the Bloodmoon expansion. I like the concept of GCD a lot, and it's ideal for certain character builds, but I find it way too "stifling" for other builds. In those cases, I find MADD Leveler to be the better answer, even if it's a little less "elegant" in how it handles attributes over 100.

As for "inefficient" levelling with the plain vanilla system in MW, that only means it takes a few more levels until you reach the same overpowered point, because you've got to really mess up a character badly to fall behind. I found that OB was FAR more critical in this regard, to the point where taking your preferred weapon skill as a Major was a bad idea.

With Enchanting or Alchemy, I self-limit the skill by not using any home-made potions or enchantments to fortify either the skill or Intelligence. The "vanilla" ones are "fair game", because they're "reasonable" in their effects, and somewhat limited in availability. That still allows you to make a pile of "useful" gadgets and gizmos to get you over rough spots, or to "bend" things in your favor, but not the massively game-breaking stuff that you can do by "stacking" effects. Disallowing the whole skill for your character just takes a lot away from the game.

According to the Excel table str progression will be about 3/4*original. So resulting str will be 3/4 of vanilla. The trick is here to level those skills to 100. Every skill will start to slowdown after a while, depending on, again, starting value. After a certain threshold it needs x2, then x3, x4 etc. Starting value 5 skills(misc) will start to slow down at 64. Skills, starting at, like 45(major) will overshoot 100. And so will be their impact on attributes. Your char will level faster in agility, speed, willpower and intelligence, and slower in other areas. A rogue/mage.

And again the main point in using GCD is not that it "fixes" vanilla, but that it automatically levels the char depending on how it was planned to be from a roleplay poin of view (and sense). And taking the constant mindpressure off the shoulders. Its easy to say on the forum not to powergame, while all it takes in the game is a few clicks. Its just annoying. Which i believe is the reason why OP made this thread.

On the other hand. Completely ignoring vanilla powerlevelling will get you at most like x2. At level 30 that would be only 60 stats. Barely any change at all.

You can really play any way you want, but in the interest of free speech, in the four days you’ve discussed how not to power level, I’ve power leveled my character about twelve times and had a blast. I don’t use trainers, books or cheats to level, I just play the game with a goal in mind. If actually planning out your character’s actions so that you max the important things is bad, then why do you “fix” this by using mods to do this for you? You’re essentially RPing with a mod that power levels your character for you. I think that all the epitaphs that RPers have for power levelers can be boiled down to one four letter word, math. It just is not that hard to get max attributes, health points and levels while playing a role that rocks at the same time. Next time you level up, reread the part about “the results of hard work and dedication”.
Good luck with your character.

I agree. I did not build my char based on any anolysis or understanding of GCD, but he's been fun to play. Custom-class Tourist with maj/min skills including hand-to-hand, acrobatics, athletics, unarmored, restoration, conjuration, speechcraft, mysticism and two others I forget. His favorite skill is alchemy. He's now level 26 or so. I wish he had more strength (52 atm) and endurance (42 or so IIRC), but with some STR and AGI enhancing items he's found as part of the MQ and a large supply of restore health and restore fatigue potions and always keeping a Potion of Recall handy as a backup plan, he pretty much romps through most of the Daedra (except Daedroth) and was able to take out five Orcs in full heavy armor gear who were upset with his presence. Under GCD, his unarmored skill and another one have now exceeded 100. He reached 100 in hand to hand but switched to long swords (now 70 something) at the request of the Imperial Cult Oracle to use a particular blade for good. He might switch to blunt weapons soon because she foresaw that too after retrieving a certain item for her. There's certainly no lack of combat in the game to improve weapons skills. FWIW, I have not used any trainer skills yet, nor foresee a need to do so atm. However, I have run across one NPC (from a mod maybe) that intrigues me that I may do so just to find out more info.

Oh, just an aside. Don't discount athletics and acrobatics. Athletics skill builds up the Speed Attribute. Acrobatics is tied into strength. There's a lot of satisfaction and fun to jump over, twist around and strike down with weapon raised onto your enemy

John

To the OP:

Relax man, don't worry about screwing up your character because unlike Oblivion, the enemies are pretty much static in level except for a few choice enemies. In Oblivion it is true that if you put your major/minors as the skills you actually use the most, you will scruuw yourself royally, but in Morrowind just level up some more after you run into a hard enemy and you will notice that that enemy is no longer as hard. I've beat all three main quest multiple times and I have never been concerned about getting 5x multipliers or even 4x multipliers! In short, just go with the flow, if somethings too hard go level up and come back later!

A few pointers though---
Unless your a mage, it is best to get the sign of The Lady for that awesome endurance and personality boost.
Try using luck as a favored attribute, it helps EVERYTHING you do
Make sure you actually use weapons that match your maj/min skills and you will level up fairly quickly.

Good Luck!