Been playing as a pacifist this time around. I'm at level 26, am the Grey Fox, 3/4 of the way through the mage guild quests, and have 0 kills. I've found a way to deal with most enemies. Either I have them chase me back to town, to a patrol, or into a trap. I've got OOO installed and have managed to kill Lord Volmyr by getting him to chase me to Umbras lair. I am having a very tough time dealing with Ederiath Vrastal. My original idea was to have her chase me to Umbra but it appears impossible to get her out of her ruins ( door closes behind you and you must exit another way. The other way has a railing in the way that she can't get over) there are no traps in her portion of the ruins. My next idea was to frenzy up the other vampires in her section (I know not very pacifistic but I'm out of ideas) but they don't even scratch her before she kills them all. I've tried casting silence on her but it never works. I really want her robe so I'm asking to see if anyone has an idea on how to kill her without me getting credit.

Thanks
Wiedz

Do frenzy spells count towards your kill count? If not, I don't think console-killing does.

Do you have to kill her? from a Google search it seems like she is just an OOO boss, if she's not a part of any quest you should be able avoid her and get out of there.

Suggestions if you REALLLY want to kill her:
Companions?
use Vow's and Covenants/ NPCs yield. To get her to surrender and then find some way to kill her now that she's non-violent.
Use poisons, or scripted spells/items that don't specify you as the killer

Hmmm.... Midas Magic has an "Astral Combat" spells which teleports you and the target to the astral realm to fight. I suppose what you could do is:Use the spell on some insanely powerful boss monster, escape, and then any time you come against an enemy you can't find a way of defeating you simply use the astral Combat spell again and go invisible as soon as you enter.
Essentially you'd have a powerful trapped monster to transport any troublesome enemies to.

Frenzy spells do not count towards your kill count. I don't want to use the console for this. If I can't figure out a way I'll just have to accept defeat.

I don't have to kill her, but I really want her robe. I haven't used companions before. Would their kills count for me? Would they be any more effective than a Vampire Matriarch and Patriarch? I'm not sure I know of any poisons or spells that could kill without me getting credit. Also they'd have to do massive damage since I haven't seen her health bar move even when she had the Matriarch and Patriarch wailing away on her.

Read my edit above.

To answer your questions:

Companion kills don't count for you.

Companion effectiveness varies on their stats, equipment, and if they're invincible/essential or not. Most of the time companions end up being nothing more than meatheaded meat shields that rush head long into battle.

Poisons don't give you credit for the kill.I used to love hitting guards with powerful poisons and killing a town's entire guard and only getting like 40-200 bounty.

Scripted spells and items... I can think of a few examples.

Midas Magic has a spell which summons rocks to crush enemies.... not sure if credit is given to you or not.

Lost Spires has a bear trap that takes half of a NPC's health away with each use.... the player doesn't get credit for the kill

Thievery options:
You could always use the NPC's yield mod and use something like companion share and recruit to have her give you her robe, or whatever.

There should be a mod that allows you to completely loot unconscious enemies.

You could sneak up on her and reverse pick pocket some 0 weight black robe on her and then leave and come back later hoping she wears that instead of her earlier robe, and then you can pickpocket the robe you want off of her.

Perhaps you can use Sanguine Rose ( Daedric quest item from Sanguine's shrine ) or, if you don't mind using summons, summon a Spectral Warrior and buff its strength. Also, during the Sanguine Daedric quest he gives you a spell called Stark Reality. Since it will unequip your targets of their clothing then you can pickpocket. Unfortunately, Stark Reality will also strip YOU of everything and you will get your belongings back after you complete the quest.

But I'd look at the spell in CS to be sure of what it does.

Edit:
Stark Reality has a 1 damage health on it so it will count as an attack, but if you can cast invisibility before it hits...

Interesting idea. Are you taught the spell or does Sanguine just give you a scroll? If its just a scroll and I use it somewhere other than the quest will I be able to get all of my stuff back since I have to go back to Sanguines shrine to retrieve my gear? As for the summons I believe that if you summon a creature and it kills something you get the credit. Even if you don't get credit I'm not sure anything I summon will be strong enough to kill her. I'm considering clearing the ruin by casting frenzy on a bunch of vampires then leading umbra all the way up there. Once you challenge umbra can you get her to go nonhostile some way?

Nice thinking on the 0 weight robe. What determines which robe she'd wear? Is it based on power, random, or something else?

"Oops http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32267, please dont walk into it" :whistling:

Actually I dont know if these count towards your kills, I have it installed but havent got round to using any yet. I do know that being seen planting/throwing/detonating is a crime.

I'm a bit surprised that Umbra bested Lord Volmyr (if I understood it correctly). My bet would have been on Volmyr winning the fight.

I bet on Volmyr too since even my best characters have trouble with him. I was set to shield and heal her but she didn't need it. Really wiped the floor with him.

Is Lord Volmyr that vampire in Nornalhorst? I absolutely hated him because I had Azura's Spell ( weakness to frost 25% ) and Charioteer ( weakness to shock 50% ). I would have cast my vote with him vs Umbra because of his might aura. Also, he is surrounded by allies. OOO has this arrangement for enemy actors to crowd an area so that a single arrow directed at what looks like one enemy can instantly set eight foes after you.

About Stark Reality: It is taught to the player once they accept the quest and it is removed upon quest completion. Calm is supposed to work, but I think vanilla Umbra is level 50. Simply cast an invisibility spell after you pickpocket Volmyr of his robe.

How about leading Volmyr into Oblivion lava? You would have to swim in the lava to his body, so you need resist fire or fire shield. And this will only work if he can follow you into an Oblivion plane.

Edit:
Sorry, I just checked Stark Reality in the CS. It will only work on the DASanguineNakedFACTION. How about this: Enchant a 0 weight hood with damage health and damage magicka and reverse pickpocket it onto your target. She might wear it and kill herself. You would have to check to see if she is a persistant reference so that her body doesn't vanish.

Edit:
Reread your first post. You can't get your target out of the ruins but you want the robe. No traps in ruin. Target kills nearby foes with no problem. I take it that you cannot lead Umbra to your target, then? When you frenzy the other enemies to fight your target, does your target win because of their special weapon? Spam cast a one second bound dagger on them so that they will always be switching between weapons. If it's because of their spells then you need to use a bow with silence enchantment. Damage their endurance with a poisoned arrow while your at it and frenzy the other enemies and cast invis.

Perhaps get a mod with the force pull spell so that you can pull your target over that obstacle and finally lead them outside. Or paralyze your target and lift and push that person over the railing or use an area spell to blast them over.

She butchers the other vampires because they can't seem to do any real damage to her and her magic is powerful. I've tried to silence her but it never works. Can't use arrows due to the pacifist restrictions. Using frenzy is already stretching it.

I think the first thing I'm going to try is reverse pickpocketing a 0 weight robe on her and hoping she puts it on. Not sure if the chances of this are very good though. The next idea is to clear out pretty much every vampire in the ruin by casting frenzy on them, then getting umbra to follow me all the way up there. Not looking forward to the second plan because its going to take quite a bit of time but I figure if she killed Volmyr she should be able to handle Ederiath.

Just checked Ederiath in the CS. Your prime obstacle is Oblivion itself and to a lesser extent the fact that OOO continued vanilla policy. Ederiath has no eat package so you cannot use a poisoned apple ( I don't know if pacifists are allowed to use it ). If you use reflect spell to mirror her own spells back you will earn a kill and ruin your goal. She has an army of spells and buffs and that is why she creams the others. I did notice that she doesn't use a hood, so consider reverse pickpocketing her a hood that kills her or silences her if you can enchant one. I don't know if you can get Umbra in there if the door closes behind you. Depending on your level it could go either way between them. But Umbra will be trapped in that area forever.

Last advice: Skull of Corruption from Vaermina's Daedric quest. It will clone Ederiath for 30 seconds and be hostile to the original Ederiath. Ederiath can reflect it but you can just use it again until it works. If the clone wins then it will not count as murder, but I don't know if it will count as you killing Ederiath as an enemy kill. If the clone wins then it may turn against YOU! Save before using it. Unfortunately, firing the staff and hitting Ederiath will count as an attack even though it does no damage. Will this work for a pacifist run, or does it mean absolutely no attacking?

It is ridiculous that we are prevented from disrobing a knocked out npc in vanilla. Using a mod to remove this limitation wouldn't seem unreasonable to me.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Useful_Enchantments#Cursed_Enchantments

That gives some info on making enemies wear "cursed equipment". You could try enchanting it and renaming it to "aaa black robe"

On the subject of Items not just Robes it is the quality IE cost of the item or items that determine if they will wear something, Now having said that you could always do the Fighters guild quests and near the end of those many quests get the IIRC amulet that does 150 fire damage to self and slip that on to their person and let them wear it.
There are IIRC several kill jewelery and robes on the nexus
On the subject of companions use companion share and recruit and get some of the essentials from nearby towns say 10 of varying classes and take them down there, You can tell them to wait in an area also tell each what attack method you would like them to use and then lead this NPC to them in to where you staged the assault group,

Me personally if I was doing this I would take the second suggestion and get some of the most annoying NPC's and take them down there just to get rid of them. but I always play an assassin type. I also remember a spell on the nexus Nuclear Sheep or some such don't know if that is usable either.
But none of the suggestions are Pacific in nature but you are actually playing more of a Non combatant type than a pacifist.
Edit>>>>>
Ok over on the nexus there are 2 spells that may suit your needs I don't know if they will work or Not but you could try.
1. COMMAND it is supposed to give player control over an NPC for 3 days. I don't know if true or not.
2. Active Inventory Spell. supposed to give player control over NPC inventory items.
These are just a quick look. So check out what they have over on the nexus you may find what you want or need.

doesn't leading them to their death count as killing them? Sorry, but I don't think not getting your hands messy counts as pacifism haha.

To the OP: Very interesting concept, and I am surprised you've stuck with 0 kills to get to lvl 26, with OOO. What do you do about the Sylvan Rangers?

Can't take credit for the concept, I read about it on another forum and thought it sounded fun. I pretty closely followed the rules from the other forum. http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=511632
Striking a Living/Demonic/Undead/Animal/Vegetable/Mineral/etc personage with a weapon or bare hands.
Shooting anything with a health damaging spell or arrow
Conjuring anything (to help with combat)
Giving anyone a Poisoned Apple
Riding a Steed (so it can't help with combat)
Sidetracking while accompanied by a Quest companion(I have to escort them direct to their destination)
Using Chameleon, either spell or enchantment (otherwise might be too easy)

Only one I left off was the no fast traveling. That would have driven me crazy.

Some parts of the game can't be accomplished. But I'm trying to see how much of the game I can do without killing.....well ME killing.

Even though I had promised not to use a weapon I had to try this since it was such a good idea. Unfortunately the evil clones did little to no damage over the course of 20 minutes as well as giving me credit for an assault. Even if I'd be successful I assume I would have been given credit for the kill. Well I have reverse pickpocketed an enchanted black robe onto Ederiath, I couldn't bring myself to make it cause damage, just silence. So I'm left hoping that she puts it on.

On the plus side I am on the last mage guild quest. Have spoken to the worm king and am waiting a couple days so that the bone fence goes down so I can hopefully get him to drown. *fingers crossed*

I'm impressed that you followed such a stringent set of rules for so long - Good job! May you grow rich in unusual stories!

About reverse-pickpocketing items and getting NPCs to equip them, see this article, especially the last paragraph:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gaston_Surilie

My understanding is that NPCs eventually (perhaps on the three-day respawn time?) don the most expensive items in their inventory. This normally helps them choose the best armor they have, but can be used against them. As long as your enchanted substitute has higher value than the item you are interested in, they will un-equip the original in favor of your substitute. Can you create a valuable enough enchanted robe or armor that she will prefer it over her own robe?

Ederiath's Robe is worth 27400 in my game. That is why I'm doubtful Ederiath would prefer the other robe and why I suggest using a zero weight hood. Because I remember that Ederiath does not wear his hood, but it is there on a table or something. A mages hood will suffice, if you joined the mage's guild then you probably already have one or you can go to a conjurer dungeon and kill an adept for one. There is also a man that lives in one of the houses just outside of Skingrad who wears a zero weight black hood. He will have to be dead to get it from him. Unfortunately, it is possible that one of your mods could be overriding and changing the weight of these hoods to 1. That was the case for me and I got very angry and created an .esp that adds a non stock weightless hood chest to my Waterfront House.

If I understand, you don't want to kill people activelly, but you don't have any problem causing their deaths as far as you didn't tecnically hit them? If so, you could use reflect damage and magic spells, this way they are the ones killing themselves.

Unfortunately if a person is killed by their reflected damage you are credited with murder. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reflect_Damage


Well I went back a few days later to see if by some miracle she had put the robe of silence on. She hadn't put it on. But that might have been because she was dead. Just laying there on the balcony of her room. I didn't ask questions I just took the robe!! Though I'm not sure if its any better than the worm kings robe. But since it took so long to get I think I'll be wearing it.

The worm king proved to be difficult too. I had read somewhere that if you leave and come back the bone fence would be down and you could get him to drown in the water surrounding his island. Unfortunately the fence was still up and there are no enemies to frenzy up within the fence. Fortunately he glitched through the fence. I saved the game and got him into the water only to watch him stand on it....the jerk had water walking. So I lured him into the next room and frenzied up everyone. He killed them all. So I took him to the next room where he was finally killed. So I am now the archmage with 0 official kills.