I wear the heretic robe and hood. I recently walked into a Hertic camp and there was a hunger in the middle of the camp. The hunger did not attack the other heretics or me and it was not summoned. I also can walk right up to a hunger in the wild and it not do anything. However, i tested it out and took off my heretic clothes and the creature immediatly attacked. So my question is.....


Why do Hungers not attack Heretics?

Because the game has them assigned to the same faction...

This is a mechanics question, not a lore question. I would love to look up the name of that faction, but I have better things to do then fool around in the editor.

Oh ok. Sorry, I did not know if it had something to do with lore.

There might be something Lore related but it can only be explained through gameplay rather than in any documents found in the Shivering Isles.

A more interseting question is why the Hunger are in Sheogorath's Realm in the first place. Hunger are associated with Boethia, and I thought they served him (And their Summoners, for a short time) only. Did I miss an In-Game Book or something? Or have Hunger been retconed to serve Shiggles now? Seriously, people. Help a guy out!

I am only recently getting into studying the lore after all these years. I was not aware specific species of Daedra were associated with specific Deadra Lords. What books suggest this?

http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/. Not so much a Book, as a study put together by playing the Games, and reading the Books about Daedra. If that doesn't contain the information regarding lesser Daedra's 'bosses', then there are books, linked to in that Guide, that will.

We discussed this a while back if I'm not remembering completly wrong. But I'm not sure what we came forth with.
I belive we came forth that the Hungers in Shivering Isles are different from the other Hungers.

Hungers can be summoned in SI, maybe they had all be summoned by Heretics and are now freely roaming the isles.
Maybe Sheogorath doesn't want them to leave his realm, at least they are fighting this Order knights as well.

If one takes the following statements into account, then there is a great deal of lore explaining why the Heretics would be using Hungers in their struggle against Sheogorath.

1. Boethiah is the Prince of "the unlawful overthrow of authority" (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/book_daedra.shtml) and "Father of Plots". http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/darkest_darkness.shtml

2. The Zealots in the Shivering Isles have "a cause", speaking of putting Sheogorath's head on a pike on the Hill of Suicides in the name of freedom. http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/sebookhereticalthoughts.shtml

3. Hungers usually serve Boethiah. http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/darkest_darkness.shtml

4. The Dunmer are Boethiah's favored people. (From Boethiah's statments regarding the Dunmer foe in his Daedric Quest - The Tournament of Ten Bloods).

5. "Sul" is usually a Dunmer name, such as "Alandro Sul" or, more importantly, "Arden-Sul".

6. The Dunmer regard Boethiah as a "Good Daedra" and an "Anticipation of ALMSIVI". http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/anticipations.shtml

7. The Dunmer regard Sheogorath as one of the "Four Corners of the House of Troubles, and they continue to plague our tranquility and tempt the unwary into Heresy and Dark Worship. The Priests of the Temple remain ever vigilant for signs of the Adversaries' return, sometimes aided by the loyal Three Good Daedra, who are familiar with the wiles of their rebellious kin." http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/anticipations.shtml

For the abovesaid reasons, couple with additional examples of the continued war between the Anticipations and House of Troubles, I would state that Boethiah has a great deal to do lore-wise with the Heretics' use of his servants.

And for clarification, what are a couple of the examples of the War between the Anticipations and House of Troubles? Sheogorath was Vivec's legal counsel during http://www.imperial-library.info/characters/trial_vivec.shtml, which later culminated in Azura's [censored]/banishment. There's also the bit about a sword named http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Dawnfang given to the individual who would later take the Throne from Sheogorath, and Azura was known as the Daedric Prince of Dawn and Dusk.

May the Nine bless your search,

___The Word Merchant of Julianos

I believe a consensus wasn't reached. Just beacuse that's what YOU think doesn't mean that's what most people think.

My proposal, which I have been defending for months, is that the Hunger are free to do whatever they want. As independent Et'Ada, they can go to the SI if they want. Their prince has as much control over them as a king would his presents. They are servants, not aspects of the prince. You can read more about it http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=779714&hl=. I was told it was also being integrated into the imperial library...but whatever.

Had a poll about it too http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=761395&hl=

Does something become true when that something is believed by a majority of the people? Another way of asking is whether what most people believe innately true simply because that's what most people believe? Does a "consensus" convey the-way-it-is?

___TWM

1. If the Forum is a democracy, I guess so.

2. Well they probably do. If you happen to not know very much about the topic at hand, you may as well agree with the majority. You usually have a higher chance of being right. So people with no idea will just believe what the others do.

3. No, it doesn't.


So, basically Boethia's having a 'war', persay, with Sheogorath? (And probably having a war with the other Corners, with Mephala and Azura on his/her 'side'.) Excellent.

Frankly, the only explanation for Hungers in the Shivering Isles is that Haskill says "Sheogorath is particularily fond of the Hungers."

Good enough for me.

Oh I'm sorry, I guess you're right and I'm wrong. As long as the elite select few "right people" believe in something it must be fact. The majority is stupid, but self-appointed "experts" must be right beacuse they said so.



I'd say its more that they like him...or whatever. The Shivering Isles are a crazy place...literally.

I am simply asking you to state, in your opinion, whether a "consensus" or "what most people think" is important in determining what is fact, as your first quote above seems to imply? Yes or no?

If yes, then why?

If no, then why?

If sometimes, then differentiate.

I'm giving you the opportunity to expound on your ideas through my good faith interest in understanding them; I'm not attempting to denigrate them at all.

___TWM

It does not. However, results met by consensus have more value and weight then those that were less agreed upon. If one wishes to argue a point rejected by consensus, their point (in my opinion) is less valid (though still valid).

I can only agree with that.

He would be fond of this thread as well I think.
By whom are these daedric associations made? I mean in my country(giving us meat and milk, Sheogorath would love that) for example "cows" would be associated with something completely different than they would be associated with in India. In some countries cats are holy beings, in other countries they are eaten (hmm, maybe that's the same, should rethink that )


A change is coming. Everything changes. Even Daedric Princes. Especially Daedric Princes. - Sheogorath in SI

Since everything changes I think there is no much purpose in disputing over associations. Dremoras are the only Deadra we have literal proof of that they served another Prince before Mehrunes. So what reason should there be to think that other deadra should'nt change their affiliations, and they don't give a thing what we associate with them




Do you really believe that? I remember someone recently informed us that most people in TES General believe Sithis is a god. That's still wrong, no matter how much people concede it as true.

I believe that we are all guilty (including myself) of reading subliminal and emotional meanings behind our typed text. Without looking at another face, it is hard to tell the meanings that would normally be conveyed through body language. Therefore, please take the following sentence at face value: Thank you for the straightforward answer.

Moving on...

Am I correct in reading that a viewpoint may be kinda valid depending on how many people accept that viewpoint? Sort of like something can be "kinda" true? I am honestly not understanding.

___TWM

Okay, example time.

In the US right now, a debate is going on on whether or not Darwin's origin of species (evolution) or creationism (intelligent design) is correct is describing the process by which our great diversity of life on Earth formed.

Most people agree with Darwin. Because of this, intelligent design is generally viewed as "less valid". If you live in the US, you probably understand, if not hopefully your country has a similar situation.

The Isles don't need to make sense, they just are what they are. Hungers could have a party there without knowing it, Sheogorath can do it if he wants!

If you must know, he is the Isles. So eventually he'll absorb you too.

And then you'll be blue too. (had to do that one for my old friend N'Gasta.)

The Heretics hate Sheo, not the Zealots. Sorry if this has already been noticed, just got back.

DOH! :facepalm: (Thanks. Good eye.)

That's what bothers me. Bethesda was trying to echo the creativity of Morrowind but with training wheels. Morrowind was as weird as it was cohesive and alive. SI just had to be weird. By definition nothing needed to make sense.