Forgive my ignorance, but where is everyone getting the evidence that Hermaeus Mora is involved in all this? I dont remember his name or realm being mentioned when people were poking around in the patch files?

If you know the lore, then the trailer says all. Other than that: the coding in the patch files says HM Daedra (or something as such)- it was a process of deduction from there. And once the image of the "Dragonborn mask" came... the assumptions came in harder. And finally, when the trailer showed, it wreaked with Hermaeus Mora. If you've ever seen what HM looks like, you'll understand the connection. All tentacles.

Yep, plus, if you've read the description of Apocrypha in the book called "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion", it
makes even more sense when comparing that description to the trailer. There are shots in the trailer
of a weird otherwordly realm with books all over the place, which matches the description of Apocrypha
pretty darn well.

So I guess it's safe to say that it is 99.99% sure that old Herma-Mora is in this one.


Gee... Just thinking about it fills me with glee and happiness! I can't wait to meet my favourite Daedra!

There are conflicting reports of who is more powerful than who. According to the lore all Daedra and Aedra are equal in power. According to lore when Akatosh beat Mehrunes Dagon it was a fluke. Cause since they are equal in power the battle could've gone either way. But then in Oblivion it is said Jyggalag was once the most powerful daedra? So I get confused at what is true and what is not. Also I think Lorkhan/Shor is the most powerful deity in tes imo.

The coolest thing about going to Apocrypha is that Bethesda can basically put anything they want into the game and say it is from ancient times, because it is the realm/plane of Knowledge.

MK says Talos is the most powerful.

If Mora is the daedric prince of time and fate. Wouldnt that imply that when the elder scroll was used to remove Alduin from our time - Alduin came in Hermaeus's domain / at his mercy somehow?

Personally my money is still on Lorkhan. Especially if the Talos ban remains for a rather significant period of time (Like say from Oblivion -> Skyrim).

Anyway, where does Herma-Mora stand in all this? Clearly to the left*.

*I don't know yet and he's one of the few Daedra who's motivations are not necessarily easy to discern.

Oooooo the first db is trying to take over and we have to save HM from him.

This is a fun discussion going on here...

When I first started playing Skyrim and went right into the main story, I got the impression initially that Ulfric Stormcloak was going to be some kind of nefarious dragonborn-like character that you'd be pitted against in the game at some point. The opening scene of the game seemed to point in that direction anyway, so I found it a little anti-climactic when Ulfric's role ended up being just some Nordic noble making a medieval power-grab, and that his thu'um powers were learned, not inherently possessed. But it's cool that the theme of the "rival dragonborn" is coming up for real. Don't the Greybeards discuss this kind of thing at some point in the game? I remember them talking about there being those with the power who follow the more ethical "Way of the Voice", and there being those in the past who used their powers for selfish and worldly gains. I assumed they were referring to Ulfric, but they could have been talking about this next villain on the horizon...

Regarding Hermaeus Mora, it seems like he is placed in the games in somewhat of a privileged position in relation to mortals. In TES Oblivion he can only be approached after completing every other possible Daedric Quest... kind of like the culmination of being "initiated" into the mysteries of the Daedric realms and princes. In Skyrim he's the only Daedric prince who is placed as an influential force and participant in the main storyline. He may not be the most powerful amongst the Daedra, but he may be the one who potentially offers the most to a mortal supplicant, which is why an insane but gifted mystic like Septimus Signus would have been enticed to seek him out.

The ultimate librarian! When this guy says "shush" you dang well better shush!

Hermaeus Mora, needing saving from a Dragonborn? No. Just no.

Talos is an avatar of Lorkhan I believe. But anyway if MK says he's the most powerful I believe him.

Yes, he is. I bet we'll mantle lorkhan too, and be the last aspect by combining with the first dovahkiin.

Can you tell me the name of this book? I want to read it.

Here:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/aedra-and-daedra

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/guide-daedra

This is interesting... where can I find out more about this? This makes the "ideological schism" between Elven and Human conceptions of Nirn a bit more complex.

My guess:
the first Dragonborn learned how to become a Dragonborn by going to Apocrypha

King Wulfharth, Hjaiti/Tiber Septim/Talos and Zurin Arctus were all apart of the Oversoul that is Lorkhan.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/mythopoeia-and-aurbic-consciousness

I stumbled upon this info while researching Wulfharth for my mod.

Maybe you could learn *every* possible shout there, you just have to find the index book to find which book has them! Anyone else excited that they could throw in a few references to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel?

If we are to travel to Apocrypha, how nice would it be to bump into Morian Zenas! http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion

I've been saying that as well

If you can become dragonborn without being given it by Akatosh, I would almost consider that a blatant retcon unless they give a VERY good in game explanation.

The Dragons are the express creations of Akatosh, their souls tied to his essence (hence their close ties with the flow of time). I don't see how Hermaeus Mora could give that to anyone; it would make no sense. It would be like Sheogorath giving the power of infinite logic or Molag Bal giving you the power of eloquent speech. The Aedra and Daedra are intimately linked with the essences and aspects of reality they embody or align with. Hermaeus Mora giving you a dragon soul, which is intimately linked with the aspect of time, would not fit with his nature.

Most of the time there doesn't really seem to be a reason nor rhyme as to who ends up with Akatosh's gift or for what purpose.

Having said that, Herma-Mora is probably the only Daedra that could pull something like that off, but I think Occam's razor applies here.

I'll put my money on the rather large gamble that our Dragonborn friend here knew Alduin would return one day, so he cut a deal with HM. In exchange for becoming a priest/guardian/champion of HM and his realm, this dragonborn would get both a longer life and the knowledge needed to kill Alduin for good the next time he came around. The ability to kill someone like Alduin would count as forbidden knowledge.

I'm also guessing that knowledge has something to do with becoming a god, and shares a lot in common with what happened to Tiber Septim. I really think this guy will be our King Wulfharth.