She's the only person that ever gave a fight... I poisoned the [censored] out of her for it :flame:

yes, but what didn't make sense was that a damn cunjurer living in a cave had the means to find a deadric dagger/mace, and boots too.

especially since conjurers usually die in 1-2 hits

If you wanna get real cheap, theres a broken pillar in the middle of the room that you can jump down on from the landing and she cant reach you.

I did it once but I felt dirty…

I hope this is what they do I really hope that is the case. I've been wanting unique caves dungeons and ruins its one of the things I've been wanting the most from Skyrim.

I hope the dungeons arent leveled I got tired of fightiing the highest leveled creatures in Oblivion, I want more varitiy of creatures to fight also not just goblin warlord and minotaur lords, it got old after a while...

I would prefer for stuff that the lore says is rare to actually...well...be rare...in the game. And yes, I agree Morrowind trumped Oblivion in the area of coming across awesome unique relics. Staff of Magnus, Eleidon's Ward, Dragonbone Cuirass, etc. were all epic finds and difficult to get to, and IIRC none of them (except the staff) had any quests attached to them, so unless you were just roaming randomly and exploring you wouldn't necessarily have found them.

Daedric was perfect like it was in Morrowind - extremely unique and very hard to obtain a full set of. I *really* want that hunt back for rare material armor. There should be tons and tons of well hidden locations, and internet should not be a source of information on where to find what. I want a random world where my next character is going to find awesome stuff in places I didn't find them for my previous character - I want less of *my own* (rather than my characters) knowledge affect the worlds appearance.

Dumbed down;

Simplified or made less complex. In this case you are correct, however I keep seeing this response to posts about the dumbing down of Oblivion, and in most of those instances they are using it correctly. Many things were simplified and felt dumbed down in oblivion.


In the matter of the topic, I have said it many times, from the Oblivion boards to TES general, to now. Scaling of items and random loot placement takes away the purpose, and indeed the joy of exploring a new dungeon. I haven't visited some of the ones in Oblivion to this day, because I know what I will find -- a ton of bandits zealously guarding a chest containing a bolt of cloth, a wooden spoon, an hourglass and four gold. In total, since all the clutters items sell for between 0 and 2 gold, the treasure is typically pretty worthless. Occasionally I'll find a soulgem to refill my weapon, but that's about it.

Morrowind's handplaced loot was great. I found all kinds of things just by exploring. I found the bittercup weeks before I knew what it was, and kept it on display in my house because I was afraid to drink it in case I needed it later. I like the idea that I could have, and it would've had eventual consequences. I found Chrysamere accidentally. I used it for ages before I ever did the legion quests. These sorts of finds are part of what made Morrowind so enchanting to me. The loot, the culture, the setting. I felt like I never knew what was around the corner, or what I was going to find next. I miss that feeling.

I would really enjoy seeing more hidden things this time around. Oblivion did have its share of secret/special stashes, but it wasn't anywhere near the level or complexity as it was in Morrowind. For some reason in Morrowind it felt (and still feels as I'm currently playing Morrowind again) as if the items actually felt like they belonged there. Kinda like being a part of the world's history on events that transpired. The ancient nordic burial ship with the hidden cache being one of the more pronounced, but also the tons of smaller (even mundane) things like an enchanted iron battleaxe found in a hollow treestump. The attention to detail and meticulous placement of so many things was simply stunning.

In Oblivion it felt a little artificial, as if people were meant to find most of the stuff; not stumble across them because of careful exploring or plain dumb luck. A lot of the 'special weapons' were just using the exact same model/texture as every other version of that type. Other items like the Amelion armor may have been a simple retexture but the placement was not hidden/special either. It was actually part of a quest from Biene Amelion in Water's Edge to go retrieve a part of it so she could pay off a debt. And even then the armor was unusable because every single piece weighted 21 pounds. So 126 pounds (even heavier than Orcish) with the same rating as regular light Chainmail armor (at 23.6 pounds)?

Another thing that bugged me was when I found septims, fresh apples and regular (modern day) loot in ancient locked Ayleid Reliquaries. This just didn't make any sense. Going into ancient Dwemer ruins in Morrowind resulted in you only finding treasures related to the Dwemer (with precious stones, Ebony and Glass added to the mix), which felt a lot more believable.

So I really hope we'll be seeing lots and lots of both ancient and mundane treasures that will entice us to actually want to explore every cave/ruin/crypt and just stumble across them in the wilderness by accident. But the main thing is that the loot should fit the area it is placed in. So if we have ancient Falmer ruins in the game I would expect them to be filled with ancient Falmer weaponry/armor/treasures; and not 25 Nordic Gold Crowns, 2 Flagons of Mead and a Cabbage

I actually had to look this up, cause you had the exact reaction I had when I found this place. Its Marvani Ancestral Tomb. (Quest: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ennbjof%27s_Nord_Burial )

That was one of the few moments in a video game that I said "Holy [censored]!" out loud....awesome find!

This is what I feel was missing from Oblivion. Those little moments like finding this tomb and discovering that ship in an underground lake, simply for being curious.

Skull Crusher was my most O HELLZ yes moments of that game.

Of course when i just randomly found the dragonbone curiuss and i put it on it was just sssoooo EPIC.

But the coolest one was Eleidon's Ward when i found that guy and all the other sixy loots. At that point i didnt even have any daedric armor.



This.

Thaaaaats right. :goodjob:

Who found Way of the Exposed Palm without the wiki. I did,and it made my whole day. How can you say Oblivion got hidden items wrong when there were gems like this, rare, but in there scattered about

Personally, I sold all unimportant stuff from the starting dungeon to buy as many health potions as I could, ran there at level 1, lured her to the IC, watched until the carnage stopped, and never had money nor equipment problems thereafter.

I heart me some Fin Gleam. Got it in my inventory right now, actually.

What I don't like is that looking through my inventory I can't tell what's a unique item and what isn't. I'm sure I've sold a bunch of crap I can never get back.

On the other hand, Fin Gleam is about the only "artifact" worth hunting that I knew of until I read this thread. I'm about to go check Umbra out and see what that's all about, and I'm trying to find info on Hatred's Soul, but I can't find much. Other than that, I have no idea where any cool stuff is. I know where some "unique" stuff is, but... "Just because it is unique, doesn't mean it is useful."

Really, I only ever had Fin Gleam on my list of things to "get right away, and keep forever."

More of that stuff would be awesome.

Amen brother. Funny you should bring up hidden objects. I was working in the construction set today and I don't know how many thousands of times I've panned across Seyda Neen exterior cell but today, coincidentally, I noticed this enchanted war axe hidden deep in a tree stump. I was like, "What the hell? I've never noticed that there before." And I went in game to find it and sure enough, it was there. But yeah, I agree with you whole-heartedly. That is just one of the many reasons why Morrowind is such a masterpiece.

Not just unique items but unique variations of items.

In Morrowind, there were three different Daedric helms (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW_Armor_HeavySpecialHelms.jpg): Face of God, Face of Inspiration, and Face of Terror. Whereas in Oblivion, there was the Daedric Helmet.

Having different models with different stats of the same class of item (e.g., Daedric helm) adds a lot to exploring.

Oh, I also tend to go after the ring of destruction early on, but that's really only because I found it on my first play-through on my own many years ago now (I heard it drop and went looking to see what fell, and somehow managed to find it).

It's a nice ring for a starter character, even though I don't use much destruction magic. It's worth a good bit of loot too (800+ GP I think). But yeah... It's pretty useless to me. Fin Gleam and the Ring of Destruction are the only two hidden items of any merit I know of in the entire game that we can pretty much get right from the start of the game. More of that stuff - and better stuff frankly, would be awesome.

The hidden things should escape once you get near them

I think both systems had their problems.

In Morrowind it was incredibly easy to grab some of the best equipment available in the game if you knew where to look for it or if you simply were lucky. For example the full set of master alchemy equipment in the Caldera tower (but also Daedric weapons etc). This completely ruined the balance of the game. If you find a super powerful sword at level 3 then you won't find anything better for the next 100 hours of gameplay (which kills the fun in finding new equipment) and most enemies will be easy to defeat even though they shouldn't.

In Oblivion they tried to balance this, but they made it boring this time because you could never ever find something not appropriate for your level. That also killed the fun of course because you knew 'I'm level 3 and I will never find anything better than steel/leather equipment, no matter what I do or where I go'. Where is the point in exploring if you know that you can find the same equipment and the same enemies no matter where you go?

So I hope they do it right in Skyrim. It should be possible to find high(er) level equipment no matter what your level is, but the best equipment should be hidden and guarded so well that a low level character can hardly ever get his hand on it, if at all.

Unfortunately there is one problem that was immanent in both Morrowind and Oblivion: exploits. If you really wanted you could defeat any enemy in Morrowind and Oblivion. Jump on a rock, run to the guards, make a few insanely powerful potions - a lot of possibilities. So they would need to get the gameplay right this time as well to make sure that a player really can't defeat a giant for example at level 1, no matter what he tries.

Two things can make a lot of really unique items, as much as the designers like:

• Upgraded meshes for items, that have parts that can change color, or texture, when we define the items, (not designing the meshes), so in the editor, you can select a mesh, and define a few textures for their special configurable parts, and voila, you have a new item that can be different from any item out there.
  
• http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1107940-perks-they-can-make-each-play-through-a-unique-experience/page__view__findpost__p__16229872: which whenever you equip/take them, add a specific perk to your active perks, and whenever you remove/drop them, remove that perk.

These two customization methods can result in unlimited unique items, only limited to the imagination of the designers.

Oblivions problem (for me) was that when you actually stumbled upon something really nice at high levels, pretty much everything else was high level too so it didn't matter very much. In the search for more customers they made everything easy to obtain too. Hard to reach places? Things you could see but not get? Not in Oblivion, just smash your way to it.

This is something I hope Bethesda really considered for Skyrim.

Something I've done since Morrowind, into Oblivion, FO3, and FONV, was create a little home museum displaying all the goodies I found throughout the land. And Morrowind had plenty... One item that I will admit Oblivion had that was the most memorable unique in the game for me was the... "stone brick" Yes, the stone brick was a part of my collection in Oblivion and it was awesome. The muffin in Morrowind was another cool one. I just love finding one of a kind items, it's like collecting cards when you were younger(or now if you still do ) You always want the rare items, the common cards are no fun!

Another point I'd like to address is the matter of dropping quest items. I don't like objects permanently bound to me... and some of those items would go perfect on display in my home museum! But alas I wasn't able to do that. So naturally I want Morrowind's freedom to drop items back and all make sure quest items have weight... take about immersion breaker... To prevent quest items from being dropped obliviously they could just add a tag that tells if the item is a quest item. It will then be up to the player to keep track of the item... less hand holding please

Not to mention all the damned bugs that came with this. Boots we couldn't drop for example - even once the quest was completed.

I'm a big boy. I can make my own decisions.

I like the idea of having our own place to display things - and I don't mean just those stupid display cases like we have in the house in Skingard. I mean an actual place to keep "sentimental" items - and then let us actually keep them if we want to.

Hell yeah, the ancient "viking" tomb, remember I got an old key from a nord in vivec or something, found the cave beat all the skeletons and opened the last door with the key. It was epic!!! and the daedric face of god helmet was so awesome!!!! and the daedric warhammer was pretty badass

I don't have great hopes from Fallout 3. And Obsidian didn't do any better with New Vegas.

In both games I was forever finding spots where you could squeeze into an area, or reach a platform with some effort of finding an overturned car with a space under it. And there was never anything there.

But there was stuff stuck in every obvious place that everyone would check by habit. See a random trailer that hundreds of people walk by every day? Chances are there's something in it that those people never bothered to pick up on their way by.

I hated that.

It's an exploration game....give me something for exploring.