Fixed

Can you really call that racism. The Stormcloaks are wearing bears on their heads for Talos sake. Bears! The Nords have always been considered barbarians by the non-Nord humans. Everybody is a bit racist. The thing is, Imperials, Nords and Bretons are considered the white people of Tamriel, since Atmora is basically where the Nedic people and Atmorans come from. Now, Dark Elves = completely different.

Spare me your /facepalm Celan, I kow what Ulfric said. Well Ulfric, you wouldn't have to rebuild if you hadn't started the war to begin with. He will rebuild Skyrim as he sees fit, not Imperial-backed and not just for the Nords. Brunwulf, he will rebuild it better, Ulfric, not so much. I don't know, I guess I have a personal grudge against Ulfric. I still think he is a Thalmor sleeper agent, the Thalmor connection is still there. When he has sufficiently weakened the Empire, the Thalmor are going to wack him.

There was a Nedic population of Tamriel which travelled to Atmora, wiped out the elves there, and came back centuries later under Ysgramor. I need to get off the lore forums...

Why on earth would you think that? That 'Thalmor connection' is being captured and tortured by Elenwen. Why would he be endeared to them in any way?

Nice.

The Nedes (also known as the Nedic peoples) were the "proto-men" who lived in Tamriel during the earliest years of creation. They were eventually absorbed into the bloodlines of the various human races. It is believed they came from Atmora in many waves, and different groups of Nedes evolved differently.

Never understood that bear thing people use as arguments. I forget what book (probably Nords of Skyrim), but it states that it would be foolish to not use the abundant amount of animals they have as resources. The Bear is also the insignia of the Stormcloaks, "The Great Bear".

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/kurt-kuhlmann-posts

Btw you shouldn't quote UESP articles. Get actual sources.

That is false. It's imperial propaganda. See, commentary by MK and Kurt Kuhlmann.

The use of the bear in Stormcloak iconography (crap, that sounds like an essay title) comes from Ulfric's dynasty, or his father, who was the 'Great Bear' of Windhelm. Ulfric himself is called the Bear of Markarth. It's a symbol, just like the dragon is for Imperials, although far more practical as a symbol of strength as you can actually put it on your face, rather than flailing away like a little girl.

And please let's not let this become a debate on the origins of Tamriel's humanity, those things tend to last forever.

And I doubt the Thalmor are going to 'wack' Ulfric (while I'd like that), they'd have to get through Cyrodiil first. And despite how many people hate the Empire, you know they're not going to let them in so easily.

Btw, if you get a chance can you let me know how I can make my avatar a gif like yours. Message me if you can so we don't steal more of the OP's thread. lol

To be fair, I don't think the Thalmor-approving nature of the Empire would have had to be exaggerated if it weren't for people exaggerating just about every negative point on the Stormcloaks that could possibly be conceived. Like somehow the Stormcloaks want to drive all non-Nords from Skyrim. Or that Ulfric is a Thalmor AGENT. You know the drill.

This is the most...

Let me stop before I insult you and get a warning. All this is is ethnocentrism. If Ulfric's comments are racist, then insinuating that other cultures INCLUDING Skyrim's would fall to barbarism without your wonderful guiding hand like a master to his flock, is CERTAINLY racist. He isn't talking just Skyrim, but all provinces. That's borderline supremacist.

The bear also ties to Orkey, the Nordic god that took away their years using Alduin, and is related with Arkay, god of death, and Trinimac, the one who killed Shor.

http://www.videogamesartwork.com/games/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/mural-bear

In other words, it symbolizes death. Making a bear for a warrior the perfect symbol of death. So in other words, people with relations to bears in Skyrim are badasses in their culture.

Agreed. These two are comparable to conspiracy theories in their reliance on conjecture and extrapolation - or fabrication - of threadbare evidence, yet they're lauded as though they're gospel.

You learn something new every day. It takes a brave man to wear death on his helmet. Got to be good for psychological warfare, too.

My own clan's symbol is frickin' heather. Stormcloaks make me look like a [censored]...

Look him up? I follow him on twitter. You aren't telling this Viking fan a damn thing.

Thalmor Dissier: Ulfric Stormcloak

Just thought I would put this here as evidence. It is suspicious is all I'm saying.

Celan, you should have kept your signature the same, it seems.

That is all.

Well, you don't need to bring an army. All you need is one assassin. The Reman Dynasty and the Akaviri Potentate both fell because of assassins, all you really need to do is cross the bridge, get into Windhelm, perhaps several people, Nords just to be safe, traitors most likely, dressed as merchants, then kill Ulfric in the Palace of the Kings, mages most likely as well. Ulfric may be a warrior, but he and his might are nothing against a group of Thalmor battlemages. They did conquer most of Cyrodiil and capture Ulfric during the Great War after all. With Ulfric and his replacements gone, Season Unending all over again, or the Empire takes over again. I just don't see a good ending coming from the Stormcloak side. To me, Ulfric is basically a deadman walking.

I disagree with the entirety of that statement, but I'm going to focus on that last accusation. What honestly makes you think he's a coward? That's just plain wrong. Not only has he started a war with an EMPIRE on his own, but he was a distinguished Legionnaire in the Great War, almost single handedly broke-down Markarth's gates and liberated the city from the Forsworn, and publically spits in the face of the Thalmor...And that's something not even the Emperor or Tullius can do. There is no denying that the man has balls.

Is it because he uses the Thu'um? Then classify the Dovahkiin as a coward too for constantly using it.

I'm not saying you have to like him, but that's just plain biased slander.

You could literally say that about anyone. Elisif could die that way, Tullius could die that way, the Emperor...Oh, wait...

I'm not saying its impossible, but its unlikely, and there's no evidence to point to that happening. Besides, what would that accomplish? With the Civil War over, they've already accomplished their goals in weakening Skyrim and the Empire (which happens no matter who the victor is), what would assassinating Ulfric (or Elisif) do? The Thalmor have bigger fish to fry than to keep meddling in the internal affairs of some province that doesn't even border them.

If you don't get the political meaning of 'asset' it is. As a politics hons. student, in this case it just means somewhat helping your cause - inadvertently or not. Like how some in Japan's nationalist movement (actual example used, by the way) might see North Korea as an 'asset' in that it gives ground to their campaign to increase spending on the military, even though it is an enemy and to be treated accordingly. The text even clarifies this:

'Uncooperative to direct contact' again political code for: 'don't send emissaries or negotiators to this man if you want them to live.'

I'll repeat Ulfric is not any sort of Thalmor sleeper agent. That would just make zero sense, given the man's personality and history.

It is supremacist, just like the Thalmor. Skyrim was doing well before the Empire, now it is doing better in my opinion. I just want what is best for Skyrim, taking steps forward, with Ulfric, it's taking steps back? I lived in a country that was once socialist, now it is capitalist, do we want to go back to socialism? OF COURSE WE DO! But we can't, because nobody is doing socialims like they used to anymore. I was better back then, it's worse now. Skyrim can't go back to just being Skyrim because it has changed under the Empire, and you can't change it back anymore. It is irreversible. The only way to really stand a chance against the AD is to unite all the human kingdoms under a single new Empire and fight the AD when humanity as a whole has healed from its injuries and the damage done by the Thalmor.

At the end of the Second Great War, the Thalmor's White-Gold Concordat basically struck the Emprie so hard, Hammerfell seperated from the Empire. That treaty left a wound, which then became infected. That infection is Ulfric Stormcloak. That is how is see the man. I like vikings, I like pagans, I like the norse ways, but under the Empire, Ulfric is not a freedom fighter, but a terrorist. He killed the High King in what you could consider a duel, but an unfair one, started a war because that really doesn't count anymore under Imperial rule, and that is about it. If he wins: Well, Skyrim is kind of screwed. If he looses: Well, Skyrim is kind of screwed, only less so.

Seems as we're close to the 200 PL: M'aiq, buddy, PLEASE do not make another thread. Unless you enjoy depriving people of their sanity.

I answered your other post above, but

Why does 'unity' automatically entail 'imperial government?' You can stand united with others without them ruling over you.

M'aiq shall now release the Results thread.