I don't agree with Tullius, but life under the Emprie was better back then than it was before the Empire. I play Nord, always, but not a "I live in a house made of snow and carry axes around for fun or something, bah, hate the elves" type of Nord. I play a Nord who's a swordsman, who's a battemage, who likes Dark Elves and basically all the races, who serves the Empir because he believes in the Empire as a thing that is supposed to unite the races of Tamriel, especially the human ones and especially when a threat as great as the Aldmeri Dominion is on the horizon. To me, Ulfric is nothing. Nothing but my enemy. Also, the old man looks nothing like Ned. He's blond for Talos sake!

First, "it's doing better, in my opinion". What? What are you smoking and where can I have some.

Second, "It's irreversible, Skyrim can't go back, and so on and so on". Says you, maybe. There's absolutely no reason why Skyrim can't go on by itself.

Third, you can have united kingdoms without. an. Empire. For Kyne's sake, people are so narrow minded.

Hammerfell separated from the Empire because Mede punked out and fell for their bluff, while Hammerfell did not. Not because the Thalmor forced it. I don't care how you see Ulfric, but the infection as you call it starts and ends with the Empire.

Well, what? Do you expect Tamriel's version of the Holy Alliance to team up and defeat the Thamor, taking the role of Napoleon? Sure, it could take the form of a pact or covenant, but these are the humans we are talking about, an Empire is inevitable.

Was it? I seem to remember the Nords being at their strongest around the time of the Skyrim Conquests. A period in the 1st Era, in which they were independent for all but 200 years mind you(and it lasted nearly 3000), where they ruled between 1/4 and 1/3 of all of Tamriel. I think that would be the best period for the Nords. Not being under the rule of the Cyrodilic Empire. And they are certainly not much better off under the rule of an Empire who, over the last 200 years, haven't been able to protect their provinces.

No protection =/= better off

According to the Empire, it was. Yet wars continued even with the Empire, and this Empire is NOT THAT EMPIRE. By a long shot. It cannot come close to holding the standards of the last one. Don't care what your RP is, it won't turn this turd to a gold nugget no matter how bad you want it to.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nels_the_Naughty

Life's no better in Tamriel with an Empire. I'd argue it was better without one. Whether it be elven, Nord or Imperial.

Seriously how did Ned Stark pop up in a discussion about Ulfric? I mean it would at least make sense if it was Martin Septim we are talking about.

The whole Stark family is full of turd for brain dumb asses. I'm glad Ulfric is nothing like Ned.

Just the appearence.

Imperial win: Skyrim is brought back under rapidly declining foreign Empire, that is allowing the enforcement of Thalmor law on its populace, which if disobeyed is punished by imprisonment and Spanish inquisition-style torture.

Stormcloak win: Skyrim is separated from foreign empire it has been dependent on for 600+ years, requiring efforts to restructure nation into being self-reliant. Also, lost manpower needs to be rebuilt because of imminent Thalmor threat.

I would list racism/prejudice as a problem for the Stormcloaks, but to be honest that's still a problem even within Imperial ruled Skyrim, and has always been.

Well, both Ulfric and the Empire in my opinion are rotten, but getting rid of the Empire really doesn't help. Instead of a knight, ready to fight the beast that is the Thalmor, you would have a pile of body parts, saying "It's just a flesh would", swinging away on the floor at the enemy. The humans need to be united, seperating from the Empire doesn't help. Getting rid of Ulfric and working to heal the Empire in my opinion is easier, but I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

M'aiq suggests that you stop posting so a Mod can lock this since this is way past its post limit.

Yes, the Skyrim Conquests were a grand time. But do you know what happened at the end, how they ended. I have proven my point.

A plain-old alliance would do. Don't make out it's impossible: it's been done before. Countless times.

It sure does, because in the hundreds of years since its decline, it hasn't shown any signs of improvement. It's falling, and will continue to like a snowball down a mountain. The provinces that were stuck in it are leaving before it hits, as they should. You don't need an empire to be united. Especially not a pathetic one.

Not to mention the Nords were also incredibly powerful in the Merethic Era too. It's only after Reman got his hands on Skyrim it all started going downhill...

If your empire has managed to cause civil wars, rebellions, or seccession in each of the provinces under its control, it might be time to look at other options if you want unity.

No, you haven't. You have done nothing to prove to me how being in a declining Empire that siphons resources and manpower and can't even give protection in return, and who has a track record that makes it far from out of the question that Skyrim becomes a bargaining chip to appease the Dominion, is a good thing for Skyrim. That is the elephant in the room, not that the Skyrim Conquests ended because of a succession crisis that sparked a civil war. Which is not unique to Skyrim or the Nords' culture, by the way.

Yea, you've proven that all Empires fall, and so will this one very soon. Notice also it fell after supposed divine assistance left them. Sound familiar?

Hold up, you want to talk of wars of succession?

Titus Mede I and II would love to engage in this conversation. One started off as a warlord, the other left no heirs.

Yet despite both blunders at Red Mountain, the Nords still managed to prosper and thrive for the most part for the next 2000 years before the Tsaesci invasion. All the while half of Cyrodill was suffering a dark age this whole time due to the dreaded Alessian order.

Try again!

And one only succeeded because he was the council's [censored]. The same council involved with the murder of his son. How stable.