Agreed, wish I had the option to make her dreams come true. Also have to agree that I just don't find Elisif that attractive all things being considered.

I have similar wistful feelings about one of the barmaids, I forget which one. Maybe in Falkreath? Always hoping she'll get to go on adventures, but even if I try to make her a follower with AFT she just kinda stands around looking a bit confused. Oh, well. I don't think I even particularly think she's attractive, it's just a pity she can't come adventuring for a while. At least Erik the Slayer has the option of coming with me as a mercenary (although it'd be even better if he became a random encounter off doing his own thing, with maybe the option of joining forces if you happened to bump into him).

A man can fancy moose. Do not oppress me

She's not a patch on Abelone from Dawnstar.

This poll is totally not rigged as all get out.

1. Elisif the Fair

2. Elisif the Fair? Yeah, sure, Elisif.

3. Rubeus Hagrid

Everybody greaves in their own way. I support Elisif because I can't bring myself to support Ulfric. The man is an idiot and a lousy polititian. He's also stuck in his ways and a coward, a true warrior would die fighting the Empire, or go out and fight instead of sending his housecarl to win his battles for him. Usurper.

I like Elisif, she's attractive, she has potential and I can manipulate her, use her to gain more power. Then, when the Empire falls, I can march south and claim the Seat of Sundered Kings for myself. Wait? Did I type that? Anyway, Elisif, I don't expect her to be a good leader, I expect her steward and her thanes to rule untill she it wise enough, a few years. Ulfric, I can't change him. What am I supposed to do? Usurp the throne? What if I'm not a Nord? I am, but still. I wish the civil war was more expansive, maybe even assassinate Ulfric and spare him a honorable death.

But anyway, Elisif difinetly. She has potential and a lot of inner strenght to actually rule while greaving the death of Torygg. When I first started Skyrim, I had heard about Ulfric and his rebels. I was going to join them, but then I traveled to Solitude. I was impressed by Solitude, getting there by and not yet seeing where it was built, which impressed me even more. I expected Elisif to be more of Cersei-like character, but what I found was an unexperienced girl sitting on the throne once held by her husband. I couldn't wage a war against her and the Empire. I even try to stay on good terms with the Thalmor, but I do secretly kill them, after all, we are enemies. But Elenwen and Ondolemar, sure. The Empire, or Skyrim, are not strong enough to win a fight against the Thalmor, not yet that is. Elisif, all she needs to do is rule Skyrim and you don't rule the way Ulfric would rule. When you do that, you loose everything.

^ Ah, alpha male syndrome. I wonder how much of that affects how people react to Ulfric.

And you think that's a good thing?!? Well, if you don't want what's best for Skyrim but what's best for your own chances to have some power it makes sense, I suppose...

1.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c1ab9

2.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00065939

Good day.

edit: And if someone's way of grieving is crapping on their country and kinsmen by brown nosing the enemy, then they have issues and can go to Coldharbour.

I like Elisif. Tullius is arrogant, but in the end, his cause is more noble than Ulfrics. He's fighting for the Empire, because if Ulfric wins and Skyrim separates from the Empire, countless will suffer. Skyrim is partially dependant on the Empire and its trade. Sure, there are farms and lots of animals to hunt, but will that feed a population as large as Skyrim? Dough, the Empire will collapse Imperial or not, I would just rather have Elisif on the throne with her advisors than Ulfric with his issolationist warlords. Skyrim can't be just Skyrim anymore. Mankind is facing the largest threat since the Oblivion Crisis, a rival Empire controlled by the Altmer, those closest to the ancinet Aldmer. For Skyrim, ruled by the Nords, the closest of to the ancinet Atmorans to seperate from the Empire, effectivly breaking ties with Cyrodiil and High Rock, effectivly breaking the Empire in two, they would lessen mankind's chances in the Second Great War, unless Ulfric is smarter than he comes across.

Both Elisif and Ulfric have their faults. I chose Elisif because when the Empire does collapse, Skyrim should have allies, instead of shuting the other races out and creating the human equivalent to the Thalmor. The facts are: Elisif is unexperienced and really has no idea how to rule, but her intentions are good and in time she could learn to rule not just Solitude, but all of Skyrim, with the right advisors. She will probably be a puppet of the Empire as long as the Empire is around, when won't be for long. Ulfric on the other hadn is more of a warrior, and he will probably fail to rule Skyrim if he tried to rule it like he rules Eastmarch. He seems to be also conditioned by the Thalmor into starting the war, and even dough his victory should be avoided, that doesn't mean that the Thalmor don't have a contingency plan should that come to pass.

I just hope Skyrim doesn't get the clean sweep like Morrowind and Cyrodiil did.Skyrim should get the reverse, suffering a minor catastrophe like the Falmer invading from the underground, along with the Forsworn attacking Markarth, but the weakened Skyrim is aided by the Bretons and Skyrim rebuilds and both provinces begin to grow in power, while Cyrodiil is split in two - Colovia and Nibenay. They could use events such as these to set up games in either Alinor or Argonia or Hammerfell or the other two Dominion provinces. And yes, I am leaving out High Rock, DLC for Hammerfell.

I care about Skyrim, but I also care about the Empire and its people. To me, they are the same. If the Dragonborn cannot rule Skyrim, then they should leave it in capable hands and while Elisif may not yet be capable, Torygg was and Ulfric believes he is. The whole civil war is on his head and he should pay. Stormcloaks and Imperials, there are no good guys or bad guys, only mortals doing what they think is right. And when we have chosen a side, we will protect it in every way we can, with arguments.

I was referring to the fact that when Tullius captured Ulfric, he surendered, rather than fighting to his last breath. Perhaps he did the "King who knelt" thing to spare his men, but of course, that didn't happen. He surendred. A ture Nord should face his enemies in combat, rather than be executed. Or do Rikke, Tullius and the Dovahkiin have to go to Windhelm with the Legion, kill all his men, ruin the city and probably some innocents in the process, break down his castle doors and kill his lapdog Galmar before he actually fighting for the land he so loves? If Ulfric was half the man he was, he would have led the Stormcloaks in the Battle of Whiterun instead of Galmar, like he did in the Markarth Incidnet. But no, the only time he actually does something is in the Battle of Solitude, where his vicotry is assured. You could say the same for Tullius, but this has nothing to do with Tullius. He's arrogant, but he is a general, he spends all his time in Solitude, planning attacks. Ulfric, he sits on his ass on the Throne of Ysgramor, a throne that may be his, but he does not deserve. Skyrim does not belong to Ulfric, but the Empire, and the Empire belongs to the Nords. What is seek is peace, peace between the Nords, peace between the Thalmor and the Empire untill the Empire can crush them. If Ulfric's idea of ruling is opressing non-Nords and letting his citizens suffer, then he's a poor excuse of a ruler. The Bear of Markarth? More like an oversized Skeever if you ask me.

Now Elisif, there is a ruler of potential. Solitude has produced many strong rulers, some of them evil or insane, but still, a worthy place for the capital of the second empire of the Nords! A Second Nordic Empire of Skyrim, reaching far into the south! If Skyrim would suffer under Elisif, it woulf suffer more under Ulfric.

So he could what, die meaninglessly and out in the middle of nowhere? Ralof mentions they expected to be taken to Cyrodiil for a trial. Obviously Ulfric wanted one last shot to speak his agenda and get people to take up the cause, even if he died. And your whole "Not a true Nord" thing still falls flat with my example:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00065939

You sit here criticizing him for not being a "man" and fighting every battle, then call him an idiot, when you fail to realize that Ulfric is the only thing keeping this rebellion alive, and it almost ended before. You're slow if you think Ulfric's going to risk the fate of his people and land because of some feeling of macho vanity. And what's really funny is that even despite all that, it's a hell lot more than what anyone else in Skyrim is doing, including Elisif.

Elisif doesn't show potential for a damn thing except being Skyrim's Yes Man. Ulfric takes half of Skyrim in one move, took Markarth back with a militia and fights Tullius to a standstill after he's given a second chance, and somehow, somehow Elisif is the one that shows potential? You can't tell me a single good thing that she does, except shut her mouth at the peace summit. You're cooch blinded, dude.

You got the hots for Elisif or whatever, then fine. Just say that like Hagrid. Don't waste my time and everyone elses with walls of text lying to us and to yourself, trying to convince us she has any, and I mean ANY good qualities that would make her a better leader than Ulfric. I'd be better off spending my time reading teen girl's bs explanations as to why Twilight is in fact a good book series.

Well I do think Elisif has good qualities that would make her a better leader than Ulfric. But that is also because I think Ulfric has some traits that make him unfit to rule. I will take Elisif's good heart and brainless nature over Ulfric's 'True Nords' and short sighted nature any day. All I really care about is dealing with the Thalmor, once they are dealt with Skyrim can do whatever it wants, heck I would even give them aid to secede from The Empire as I hope High Rock does.

What is short sighted about him? That is opinion. I'd call appeasing the Thalmor while they spy and sabotage you short sighted. And even still, what makes Elisif a good ruler? Being brainless? Any monkey can sit on the throne and say stupid [censored] while their court corrects her. Almost every single thing she says gets corrected by her court.

That doesn't make her a better leader, that makes her a better puppet. If people don't want Skyrim to have a ruler and just want them to be ruled by the Empire only, just say so. Because that's all a vote for Elisif is. A monkey to take orders and do party tricks.

I'd call chest pounding and openly inviting another conflict short sighted. Sit down and shut up is what he needs to do, just because The Empire's approach is slower than he would like doesn't mean it is a bad one, just means he lacks the patience and/or the brains to see the end game. Hence why I support Tullius, I will take a career military strategist and general over Ulfric and his lot any day.

And everything you criticize about her can be removed with the simple fact that she genuinely cares, she needs some real hard schooling in how to approach things with a more level head but as I already stated, her heart being in the right place means more to me than all of Ulfric's rhetoric. You are correct, its an opinion, but so is yours to think Ulfric is a better leader or that he can actually put his money where his mouth is with the Stormcloak rebellion. All comes down to what each person views as being a good strategic platform, qualities for a good leader, And as I said, I hope they do get some strong kind and gain independence or whatever, just later. If Elisif means Skyrim is an Imperial puppet for the time being then fine I am ok with that too.

All this "chest pounding" you mention just shows yet again you don't understand the Nords. I'll remind you Tullius says what Ulfric says about them is true. Not only is their approach slow, it's also self damaging. Letting your enemy spy on you and sabotage you is the exact opposite of "strategic".

And I'm gonna have to at she cares, and has good intentions. So? Ulfric genuinely cares too, as you can see from his dialogue. You won't find a shred of evidence that he's doing this only because he wants to be king, but plenty dialogue suggesting otherwise.

There's a difference between an opinion, and an opinion with support. All you've said basically is that you prefer the Empire, and that is enough for you to support a moron for the throne. Her and her good heart and intentions, lol.

You support the Empire, that's fine. But stop. pretending. that Elisif. is a good leader. "Good intentions" doesn't make a good leader. That last sentence in your post pretty much says exactly what I'm accusing you of, and I'm pretty sure you've admitted to this as well.

Would she settle for shame and pork scratchings?

And woah, the person who said Ulfric's a bad politician and a coward: you can call him pretty much any adjective you fancy, with some justice, but not those.

You people know she's not a good leader. Everyone here knows Ulfric is a better leader than her. The best thing I see said about her here is that she "one day COULD be a good leader", and people only say that because they know her stupidity is a point against the Imperial supporters. You people don't really care about Elisif. You care about the legion and you like her because she takes the Empire's orders, plain and simple.

Why do you think people are so quick to talk about Ulfric's "oppression", but don't say a damn thing about Markarh and Igmund? You'll bring up the Silverbloods but not the Imperial supporting Jarl in charge. Funny how that works. Like I said, you support the Empire, cool, but you'll have to excuse me as I laugh when you try selling the Sarah Palin of Skyrim as a viable replacement for Ulfric Stormcloak. The man who took back Markarth with a militia, took half of Skyrim from the great and mighty Empire in one move, and still fights off their best General until a demigod intervenes.

Even with his failings, it's a hell lot more than Elisif has done.

Why is that even so hard to admit? Where's the harm? There's no defeat in admitting something that is just plain common sense. Elisif isn't the one that will be directing troops, and it is obvious since the very beginning that our philosophies on how to deal with Skyrim and the Thalmor is different. You want the Empire to lead Skyrim, I want Skyrim to lead itself.

So how is admitting that Elisif is not a good leader at all, but a perfect monkey to take the Empire's orders a negative to you with that goal in mind? Why would you even care? You want Skyrim to be the Empire's [censored]. There's negatives to that, yes, but that isn't what we're discussing at the moment. We're simply discussing Elisif vs Ulfric. Just them.

http://tinypic.com/r/14akbh2/8

Oh.. and don't mind Fang. Old bastard never let's me play music in peace.

It's very impressive that you manage to sing so clearly through that MASSIVE BEARD, Hagrid!

Lol that's pretty good. More devotion than that mediocre hussy deserves.

M'aiq shall post part 3 soon.

M'aiq is a sadist.

Hagrid.. M'aiq may have drowned Fang in piles and piles of hair on accident..