More trouble than it's worth. Could go round up the last remaining troops to nag Ulfric where he can, even if he couldn't take back Skyrim. I doubt Tullius would return home.

'Twould seem that I'm the only one who likes Elisif.

I still say Tulius is a [censored], just my opinion, can't stand the man or his politics. Even if Elisif wanted to (which she may very well want to) go against Tulius, she couldn't. I don't like the fact that he's bossing the widowed Jarl of the High King around.

Agreed, ultimately I don't want to put the Stormcloaks down I just want the war over completely so more important things can be addressed. But we are derailing the thread a bit so back on topic...

Balgruuf because he is literally the only default Jarl I have any real respect for. The rest have their ups and downs.

Elisif only because the other choices are worse to me

For what it is worth Hagrid, I like Elisif as well. Not for her looks mind you but still. Disagree with you on Tullius though, he and Balgruuf are my top 2 favorite characters in all of Skyrim. Agree with his politics and the man.

A greater man knows when to give up and a greater man would let a man who surrenders go.

If anything, that's a point for Tullius. Him not having to listen to Elisif, thank the gods for the Imperial supporters.

They could make him, or else put him up in their own accomodation for people to gawk at every time they wanted a reminder why they left the empire behind. That's one hell of a missed propaganda coup. A man like that must also have a lot of contacts in the upper echelons of Imperial society, he'd be great for a hostage or prisoner exchange.

Eh, maybe I've just been delving into too much Conn Iggulden lately

You have a really big crush on her. I'm surprised you don't have an animated picture of her as your avatar, or something

I mostly like Elisif, although she really annoys me at the peace council. I think she's doing about as well as can be expected, though, for someone who was presumably raised to be a pretty wife rather than a stateswoman. (Not because that's how all women in Skyrim are raised, as evidenced by various other female Jarls and fighty NPC women, but because that's the impression Elisif gives).

A great moron maybe. Ask Goku how that works out in the end.

She's a mighty fine lass. She's not quite as sixy as me, so I think I'll keep using selfies for my avatar.

Nah, Tulius isn't a moron, especially given that when Tulius became the head of the skyrim legion the legion started to do better in the war not to mention it was Tulius' plan that ended with Ulfric getting captured. If anything Tulius is pretty smart.

I wasn't calling him a moron. I thought you were saying Ulfric should have let him go when he surrendered.

Though if we did want to talk about Tullius being a moron, Ulfric would have taken Whiterun a lot easier if it weren't for Rikke.

She has a better beard than you

Ulfric should have, it's more honorable to let your opponent go and it shames your opponent, it's a win-win whereas killing a man who is surrendering can be seen as dishonorable because the man clearly has no fight in him.

Then I'm back to saying that if Ulfric did that, he'd be a moron, since Tullius could come back and regroup with the stragglers in Skyrim, continuing to cause trouble, and a lot more effectively than they would by themselves. The Nords likely wouldn't consider it dishonorable. They don't even know the circumstances of his death since it was in the palace.

Though I'm sure Ulfric told them he surrendered. The Nords would love to hear that and use it to say the Empire was weak.

Got to say, I agree with Cider here. Tullius is a career general, not a hereditary war-leader. The moment Ulfric's men set foot in Windhelm, his career was over. Best let dead men walk - they remind the others of just how fragile their lives and estates really are.

If it's his return you're worried about, put him up in a comfortable little townhouse somewhere and wheel him out whenever you need to make a statement. You could justifier it to the bloodier Nords as a war-trophy.

Ulfric's already tainted from that time he killed a weaker man, I don't think he has the political capital to admit to killing one who'd surrendered. Remember most Nords don't hate the Legion, and they have a strong code of honour. Ulfric would begin to look like a maniac.

Tullius is more of a strategist than a fighter. That is what Rikke is there for.. To protect Tullius and fight for him.

Ulfric is more of a charismatic fighter than a strategist. That is what Galmar is there for.. To give advice to Ulfric and plan.

1. I'd rather have the rotten tree stump in my back yard for High King than any of these.

2. Ulfric Stormcloak.

3. I'm sorry, can someone inform me as to how M'aiq could possibly win against a 7 ft. tall badass? With a beard?! Sorry, rug. No shiny medal for you.

You don't understand the nord mindset. Ulfric wasn't tainted for killing Torygg to the Stormcloaks. And the ones who think it was wrong thought he just killed him with no warning.

Tullius is their enemy, the man responsible for many of their comerade's deaths. You don't let the enemy go like that, that would be seen as weakness. There's no reason at all for Ulfric to have let Tullius go. Especially when he would not have done the same. There's a time and place for showing mercy. Doing so to your enemies is not that time. Case in point, the Nord god Stuhn is known for taking prisoners to exploit at most. It's Stendarr, the Imperial god that does so to show mercy.

Set him up with a townhouse? That's not even what the Imperials would do. You're confusing the Nords with the little dandy manmer west from there. You don't let enemy warleaders go, you execute them.

Edit: My post was getting further off the main thread topic.

How great is the man who brags he's going to send his opponents' heads to a foreign country to adorn spikes on their palace's walls?

To be fair, that was a very common practice in all medieval cultures around the world even in reality.

But again I realize we are sort of getting off topic from the purpose of this thread. To that end I actually have a sort of general question, does Skyrim even need a High King/Queen? I mean the individual Jarls more or less keep they holds in order so what purpose is there besides sort of political connections and wartime leadership?

It's not a common practice in Tamriel. Well, except for outside the lairs of necromancers and the like.

Yes it needs a High King since it's going to be independent.

Am I wrong, or did you not read?

I mentioned that, thanks.

As for Rikke, not sure what you're saying, but if it's arguing they do accept surrender, then no, they would have executed Ulfric later as you inferred. Whether that be in Cyrodiil or wherever.

Somehow I find that hard to believe, doesn't make any sense that it wouldn't be.

Lol, I mean an actual reason other than because in your game it is independent because in mine it isn't.