can't wait, mate, i think i speak for us all when i say keep it up, and we're all behind you =] i think this looks like an amazing mod, with ALOT of hard work put in. cheers!

I can't wait for this to be released. If only Arefu was like this

just wondering if there has been any progress on this

No update I think, but I can give one now for those interested.

Work continues everyday. I work on it literally everyday, with extended hours on the weekends. For the most part it is Quests and Dialogues, the building and testing of. One by one my 12 or so quests are being finished. A little more than halfway through them. I have other quests waiting in the wings, but I don't want to start them until I finish the ones I have started. They all interlink in various ways, so a lot of time is spent debugging. A lot. For the time being I am doing debugging on my own, since the bugs I am taking down are big obvious ones. Eventually I will likely need some other eyes on thing to discover the less obvious ones or those I have missed. A few months before I need that kind of help.

Recently I have been redoing the navmesh. I had a very severe problem with pathfinding to and from Hightown. Because Hightown is an 'island' it required a door (in the form of a ladder) for access. However, after several tens of hours of testing, rebuilding, testing, scrapping, rebuilding and retesting of the navmesh, I have come to the final conclusion that the pathfinding module in Fallout has some definite limitations. I won't get into the detail, but it is basically not able to pathfind to a door and onto the island navmesh in a exterior cell. It likely has to do with the topology of the exterior itself (The pathfinding module relentlessly moves towards the highest point in the cell, assuming that will take it to the higher level navmesh, which as it turns out, does not. My guess is the algorithm for the pathfinding was much much more focused on horizontal movement, over vertical.)

To solve this I have opted for a physical bridge for access into Hightown. There will be two. One is a makeshift bridge (screenshot) that was put together when the 'drawbridge' (seen in some http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/images/10084-2-1271478762.jpg). This will provide initial access to the town. One of the quests in the town will have the player fixing the broken drawbridge. The transition between these two entrances is rather complex, involving the enabling and disabling of several navmesh. It goes somewhat beyond the shenanigans of even Rivent City's entrance. The two entrances are also about 7 cells apart, so there is a huge area of navmesh that I must test to insure that players, followers and NPC's can access Hightown smoothly.

Furthermore, the navmesh and entrance to the town need to work for NPCs, as a number of Hightowners actually venture out in the wastes, and visit several other towns in their travels. They need to be able to pathfind back to Hightown from these locations.

So I had been working to make this whole setup work. And from the looks of things, I may have succeeded.

Next up is the accommodations system. The player is not allowed to stay the night in Hightown, unless he procures a bed. If a bed is rented, the player can remain in Hightown for that period. If no bed is rented the player will have to leave before nightfall. I hope to have guards track down and escort player out of the town who overstay their welcome. Of course, should the player endear himself to the townsfolk, and or even become a Hightowner, this restriction would be lifted.

After I get that working, it will be back to the last few quests. Mind you none of these are large quests. Merely involved interactions with the townsfolk and the city itself. I have tried to make every 'quest' have multiple possible solutions, involving either combat, persuasion, or stealth. I have had some success here. I also am trying to make most quests have a physical impact of some kind on the town. The player's actions will change the town.

In anycase lots to do still. I have to be careful to keep things within the range of things I can actually get done. I have been tempted to take up some modelling, to add some new objects as part of the 'changes' to the town the player can effect, but have resisted the urge, as that would take considerable time for me, and would threaten the completion of other things.

The dark shadow that rises up before me in terms of workload, is the Voicing of dialogues. There are close to 2000 lines of dialogue already. To organize, prepare, build lip sync files, insert and test all those lines will take a huge amount of work, never mind that there could be another 500 to a 1000 lines yet to come.

Anyways, that is the story up to now. Back to modding!

Cambragol thx for such a detailed response. You talk about your navmesh problems, some modders have quit the scene over problems caused by this bugged feature, but many more have found workarounds so might they be able to help at some stage. The whole Voicing of dialogues could be an update on its own but you may have to look outside of beths forums or nexus to find help with them. Once you get to the stage of needing beta testers I am sure there will be loads of volunteers

Good Luck with your project

Thanks for the interest and kind words. I certainly have had my share of trouble with the Navmesh, but I think I finally have it all behind me. Unfortunately the issues I faced were perhaps a little rare, and or unique, as there was little concrete info or solutions for them forthcoming from either the wiki or the forums. I was certainly very nearly persuaded by the Navmesh issues to give up the cause. I do thrive on such troubles though and in the end I think I may have triumphed over them. It was a very very difficult task.

Isolating the dialogues as a separate update is a very possible route. The mod will have to be virtually perfect prior to the creation of any voiced dialogues, to prevent any forced and belated changes to lines or text dialogues. A first stage release free of voiced dialogues would go a long way to toward achieving this. However, I am still loath to go that route, as I would much prefer having a finished product, and not one that people need to continually update or replay though. It's going to be a tough call when I get to that point.

As for looking outside the Bethesda...I already have a place in mind. Nevertheless the quantity and quality of voice talent I am looking for feels a little daunting.

I found that the Wasteland is a hostile place in which to mod. There are quite a number of bizarre situations that can occur when modding there; among which:

I found that townies could inexplicably be found travelling the Wasteland far, far away from their patrol packages.

I found that LOD generated for the town modifies the entire Wasteland, so that a deliberate culling of generated LOD lying outside the mod area is needed to have any hope of compatibility with other mods that also modify the Wasteland.

I have found that NPCs will often lose track of their AI package routines as they transition from interior cells in the mod to the Wasteland modified cells.

I believe that a modder will find that his Wasteland mod can behave quite differently when played with other mods. Increased spawns in particular make an active defense at the town's access points necessary. The player has a different gaming experience if wannamingos have massacred everyone in town before his arrival.

Many of the repurcussions of the unplanned interactions with other mods will be unforeseeable before the mod is released. The time after release can include feverish attempts to rectify conflicts. Prepare and clean your mod. FO3Edit is a wonderful thing.

I have noticed all the things you have mentioned, and more. It is indeed a hostile place to mod. Extremely hostile. I have found that packages seem to mysteriously lose or change their ref targets. That little lovely may be the cause of many an odd trek into the wasteland by a townie. I have also noticed frequent 'zombification' of townies, in which they stop doing anything and stare blankly at a wall or something for days at time. I have also found that NPCs have a very loose regard for time, and 'Must Complete' flags. I can always rely on them to not be somewhere or do something on time.

As for FO3Edit, where would we be without it? Every mod would be a disaster without it. I have completely cleaned Hightown about 10 times now. I make a regular habit of opening FO3Edit up, and cleaning every single unnecessary change. There are usually a heap of them.

I have begun attempts to build an LOD for the town, but as you say, you modify the entire wasteland. I stopped after several hours of replacing various textures because the GECK was complaining of them being the 'wrong size'. Does this effort work in the end? Can the exterior wasteland LOD be rebuilt? And if you have succeeded in doing it, I could really use any pointers you might have. It hasn't gone past my notice that you produced nearly the only complete and original town mod for this game to be released thus far. Complete with lip syncing and the works. A serious achievement, considering all you (and I) had to put up with from the process.

BadPenny made a Town mod? Link please?

Oh, and what story did you end up going with for quest purposes, camb?

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8219 Not only a town, but a remake of a Fallout 1 town.

As for the story...well, I have kept it somewhat obscure, but there are plenty of dialogues that hint at the origins of Hightown. It would be a spoiler to reveal the true history, so I will just say that the idea of several iterations/periods of history to the town remain, but the main foundation, or most important one, is a new idea, no one mentioned before. The history kind of evolved as I built the characters. It emerged though that process, rather than the history determining the character of the NPCs. How much the history will play into or effect the mod remains to be seen.

Oh I didn't know he made that mod. I feel a bit ignorant for not noticing that.

Can't wait when it's finally done. Don't sweat it about voicing the dialog, Morrowind never needed it. Heh.

But as soon as I rebuild my Pop-Blocker and get a new mic... I'd like to help.

Male 22, semi-deep voice, can do characters.

Thanks for the offer. I am keeping tabs on all those who have offered to do voices. Once I am ready to tackle dialogues I will send out a flurry of emails and messages to get things rolling.

Just a little update for those interested. The last few weeks have found me occupied with making a good base of conversations for Hightown. Conversations in Fallout 3 generally refer to NPC to NPC interactions. Players can overhear or observe these conversations when in proximity to NPCs. These conversations are especially important in town settings, as they will lend strongly to the immersion of the PC in a living, breathing town whose inhabitants have interests, interactions and lives outside the sphere of the PC's influence. Or at least the creation of an illusion thereof.

For Hightown I aimed a might bit high it seems, as I am currently standing at over 1200 lines of conversation. This number is not strict, and is a simple tally of the lines as turns that NPCs possess. It also doesn't really reflect the variety of conversation that can be had, as these 1200 or so lines have been rigged so that they can be mixed and matched to give a multitude of 'conversations'. This generic base of conversations is mostly done, and is currently being tested and enhanced with a handful of specific and non-generic conversations.

The conversations are set up to be initiated and guided along 'alignment' lines. NPCs in Hightown have five different alignments; Very Good, Good, Neutral, Evil, and Very Evil. Conversation elements are defined according to one of these alignments. NPCs of differing alignment will react to each other in different ways. As an example, a good NPC would be very friendly and talkative with a Very Good, Good or even Neutral NPC. However, the same NPC would engage in arguing or insulting behaviour when speaking with an Evil or Very Evil NPC. The same goes for an NPC of any class. Their conversation and reactions will be determined largely by the alignment of the NPC that they are speaking with. To a lesser extent NPCs will also react to each other based on six and even Faction membership.

Conversations
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hightown/images/hightown-conversations
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hightown/images/hightown-conversations3
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hightown/images/hightown-conversations2

In addition to these generic conversations, approximately 500 lines of generic dialogue for combat, detection, and services has already been created. These conversations support the immersion of the player in Hightown, via specific references to Hightowners during combat. Instead of the usual "I'm gonna make you my [censored]" an NPC might utter "Come on Hightowners...let's carve this [censored] up!" during combat. (I also used a large number of combat taunts from Fallout 1 and 2. Fans of those two games might recognize a few, should they cause too much trouble in Hightown) Furthermore, a complete set of Generic Karma reactions have been created to give feedback to the PC based on their Karma and crime standing in Hightown.

Combat Taunts
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hightown/images/hightown-combat-taunts
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hightown/images/hightown-combat-taunts1
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hightown/images/hightown-combat-taunts2

Next up will be dealing with specific and non-generic conversations, which will add reactions based on specific NPCs, quest results, PC actions etc. A good start has been made here already, but I still expect to spend some time yet, to make things lively, detailed and believable.

However, one looming issue is that the more care and detail I put into this area, the less likely a complete set of voiced dialogues being created seems. In any case, back to modding.

Lol, great work so far with the NPC's! I like how you set them up to interact with each other depending on how their alignment.

Will you be making any of them kinda like what they did with Jericho in Megaton? What I mean is, are you going to have maybe 2 of the NPC's (1 male and 1 female, maybe a brother and a sister) that will want to venture out into the wastelands. Maybe they have always dreamed of exploring and/or gathering resources to make their home even better, but were too afraid to go out alone...until we come along (to be our companion). I know you have a lot on your plate, so if you haven't or don't want to, that is totally fine

This mod is really exciting for me, it really shows a lot of attention to details and even more attention towards everything running smoothly. When it is finished and released, it will easily be a file of the month.

Companions huh? I've thought about it...but from what I can see making a companion is no easy task. At least making one that is good. Still, it would be nice to have one of the Hightowners join with you. I do have a couple in mind that could fit the bill. Actually, there is one that will leave with you, but not as a companion who is going to join you in battles etc. Come to think of it there are a couple more that will also join you for short missions into the wastes, but not as full-fledged companions.

Actually, I would prefer if one of those excellent companion mods out there chose to use Hightown as a home for their creation. It would be much easier to adapt an existing companion to a starting life in Hightown, than it would be to create a unique one from scratch. I have two 'sisters' that would work well for this, along with a couple of younger, more restless sons of the town.

My other option would be to take a look at one of the better companions, vanilla or modded, and copy all the components that make it tick, give it unique dialogue and there you have it. That would take a chunk of work though, so not really a priority right now.

Got the mic, just need to rebuild that pop-blocker. Woo. Can't wait to lend a hand to this.

Oh! Great that we will be able to help a few townies with a few missions, I really like that idea It is ok if you don't work in a companion (but if you do, I want a male...really isn't enough of them). Like I said, I know you have enough to do already, so don't worry if you don't turn one into a companion, I am just as happy to escort a few to where they need to go!

This sounds great. There isn't enough emphasis in the game on conversation. And adding another good companion is always good. If you decide to do that though, I second the vote for a male companion. There aren't enough of them, and there are plenty of female companions already available IMO.

Maybe I will have to take a gander at Charon to see how things are done...

Another companion you can take a peak at is the http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10577. He gives permission at the bottom for the use of his scripts. He is constantly updating it also, so it shouldn't be a problem if you had to contact him.

I'd suggest Jessi Companion and Sydney Follower as well. Each of the companions is very different from the others as each author seems to have had a very clear vision of what he (or she) wanted. I think that's pretty important to have before you sit down to start actually building your follower. If you haven't spent a lot of time playing with companions I'd say go and play with a couple before you start building as well; it doesn't take very long to see what menus, dialogue treatments and capabilites you want to implement.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look at those. I'm still not completely sold on a companion though. It seems to me it may not be the best way to get a player using and returning to Hightown. I am thinking that a 'companion' that you doesn't travel with you, but rather comforts you after those long weeks out in the wastes might be a better way to get players returning to Hightown. Some kind of romance, friendship or relationship companion. It could be a youth of the town you take under wing and setup with their first mini-gun. Or perhaps a prosttute whom you supply with the occasional apple. Something like that. We shall see.

Deal! I really like the fact that this would allow us to want to come back after a day of adventures to have the company. I can see how when we first meet the NPC, we would have to prove our trustworthiness to them before we could even be friends. I like the way you think, I like what you have done and planned so far. Keep up the great work! Just don't forget about my man that I want to come home to :hubbahubba: :rofl:

I'll try my best to provide something along these lines. A little warning though...don't expect something soft and sweet. Expect relationships that are hard, wasteland, dysfunctional, abusive, battered and hopeless. That goes for the whole of Hightown. Not really a pleasant town. Bad things happen there. Murder and death are only some of the crimes committed with frequency.

Seems realistic to me, so I have no problem with any of that. Heck, I wouldn't want a male version of a Moira Brown, or I may start a skeleton in my closet collection :bolt: