Just a debate going on in the Skyrim section of the forum got me pondering.

Is it possible to be both a devoted follower of Hircine, AND a good individual. The way I see it there is no compulsion to hunt everything for the sake of hunting (Defeating a guy just to prove you are stronger is more Boethia's department). The hunter gets free will in what he chooses to make his prey, whether that be horripulating a famous warrior because he is a worthy opponent (A definitively evil act), bringing down a mammoth barehanded (essentially neutral) or turning the tables on a dragon attacking a village and turning the hunter into the hunted in order to protect his "pack" (A definitively good act) - surely the hunter gets some choice in what he makes his prey short of Hircine himself communing a specific desire to the hunter.

Also, does a hunt have to end in a kill at all I wonder? - The metaphorical hunt for, and defeat of a difficult to track and assail foe, is that sufficient, or must it end in blood and death? (Are souls of the prey something he's even intrested in?)



I was curious as my current character in Skyrim is a self purported follower of Hircine, but also by DnD standards neutral good. Revelling in the hunt in the wilderness and tracking and hunting apex foes like dragons, mammoths and all sorts of ancient and terrible evils. But at the same time, tends to reserve making prey of something for foes who deserve it. Even going so far as to not harm the inhabitants of a lair if they have to break into it (Afterall they are the intruder in their territory), be they terrified civilians who've seen a werewolf or petty thieves and outlaws, or cranky mages holed up in a hole in the ground. Primariyl because wanton slaughter of people isn't what good people DO, and also because such opponents do not pose a serious threat; a bandit raising a weapon to this hunter is about as menacing as a hedgehog presenting it's spines to a wolf... it's the defence mechanism of a scared animal.

However, some of the other readers were positive that this was wrong, a follower of hircine can't be good because they can't show compassion, they are compelled to hunt and kill the nature of the target and their desires are irrelevant.



What's the lore buffs got to say?

There is no really "alignment" as to what Hircine or any Daedra Lords are.

All Hircine wanted for his follower to do is to have a good hunt; nothing more and nothing less.

Hircine only demands the hunt, the hunter killing the prey or the prey becoming the hunter. Doesn't matter how, as long as there's hunting. Being sporty about it is more about personal honor than anything.

So, I'd say, yeah, you can be a good person and a follower of Hiricne. Just remember, it's all about the hunter vs. prey and prey vs. hunter. To you, killing off those who you deem evil is just another form of the hunt.

Well in that case he get's it delivered by the cartload on a daily basis from this character. And they get to keep their conscience

Depends on your definition of devoted I suppose. It could range from saying 'Hiricine steady my hand' everytime you load(?) your bow to hunt for dinner, to hunting the most cunning prey(man/mer).

Although compassion isn't a trait I'd personally associate with a devout follower of Hiricine, you could tweak your character so that its not so much compassion as certain prey being beneath you. Think the mindset of a http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=predator+picture&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=a11kqK2e-Ltb0M:&imgrefurl=http://abduzeedo.com/awesome-predator-fan-art-2&docid=MnGAhKnHac5z_M&imgurl=http://imgs.abduzeedo.com/files/articles/predator/21.jpg&w=1600&h=1129&ei=E-vrToPUPMbJhAeI28GWCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1058&vpy=149&dur=463&hovh=189&hovw=267&tx=170&ty=94&sig=108737498344951322663&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=194&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0.

Hircine is not evil at all, hell, Daedra are not evil, just misunderstood. I have no idea where you people get this idea from. Hircine is by all means the physical manifestion of the hunt and the hunt in and of itself is not evil. Hunting is an act of sport or survival. Would a wolf be considered evil for killing a deer or even a man for survival? Likewise the same for werewolves. In the Elder Scrolls lore, at least in Bloodmoon and Daggerfall, and to an extent Skyrim too, werewolves kill to survive. Their health drains slowly if they do not kill a person.


As for your question on souls, well Hircine has been known to have a thing for souls. While not as strong as Clavicus Vile or even Molag Bal, Hircine does claim the souls of his "children" or "hounds" to his Hunting Grounds and also he is the Sacrifice of Mortals, no wonder werewolves have to kill a person to appease his honor while hunting. Even the scroll of the Wolf ender talks about Hircine claiming souls through sacrifice. And remember unlike other princes, Hircine treats his servants with gifts. As a man would give a dog a treat for playing fetch or doing something, Hircine grants werewolves additional powers in both werewolf or human form. Enhanced strength, enhanced speed and resistance to diseases. He even hosts a hunt for werewolves ever thousand years. Now that's a father of man-beasts. In Skyrim, you can hear Skjor and Aela and even Sinding mention how Hircine blesses those of his. In the Totems of Hircine book, it mentions how he placed items of his power to mortals to further increase the energies of the beast within an individual who has Lycanthropy. All for the sake of the hunt, which is not inherintly evil.

Hunting is survival. Survival of the fittest is not evil. It's hunter vs prey, there is no moral ground on it. Just survival. Yes, a person can be a good person and still serve Hircine, even if they are werewolves. I think the fear of the unknown and the fear of being threatened by a force greater than you results in a person labeling them as "evil" or "bad". Hircine is neither.

Thanks, I'd forgotten about the hunting grounds part - he is intrested in souls but not of prey but the hunter (Which is fine by my character. An eternity of hunting with him sounds awesome ;p).

But otherwise it does confirm what I thought - there is no compulsion to go out and hunt or to revel in killing explictly for the sake of killing (Which is pretty hard to justify for a good character). But rather the focus is on the act of the hunt which you do on your own terms, which gives you the freeplay to still behave as a good individual, who simply revels in the act of hunting, whether for survival, to bring down some great threat, or to foil those who would hunt them.



I blame all the console players who're used to their games coming in black and white morality flavour for starting these debates on the main forum (I kid, i kid!)

Don't worry, I use a PC

Also, mindless slaughter is boring. Stalking and hunting your prey is what Hircine seeks.

Yes. Hircine favors stalking, an aspect of guile. He also favors speed and strength, something werewolves tend to have.

I am sure those in his Realm are hunted too. He had no qualms about the player joining SInding against the other hunters who served under him. If you read Infernal City, you can see that werebears and nords hunt during the day and at night he announces himself and a pack of werewolves with a horn to join in with the werebears and the nords. I think Skjor is a pretty good guy, and Aela is a pretty cool girl. She alone does revel in the hunt, she always says it in the game. And Skjor sees his own prowess and status as a werewolf a gift rather than a curse. Like I said, it was survival of the fittest. He used his own Hounds in Solshtheim to root out the weak and see which where the strongest worthy enough for the final battle during the Bloodmoon. Even if Tharsten was a werewolf(With Hircine's ring) he was still subject to fight. In Daggerfall, he commanded the player to hunt and kill a wereboar who forsaken his Lycanthropy and was miserable with all the gifts Hircine was giving him.

In any manner, it all comes down to hunting.

"nock an arrow" is the phrase I think you were looking for

On the subject of Hircine: I agree that it's definitely possible to be devoted to his realm of the hunt and still be what's generally considered a good person.

I don't think even Dagon and Boethiah's realms are exclusively evil; you don't have to be a mustache-twirling monster to venerate Destruction or Revolution. Damn near anything can be applied towards a morally laudable end.

Y'know..this thread makes me take a liking to Hircine. He seems pretty cool.

He is cool. My favorite.