U guys rnt thinking. Look stright and hold out ur hand, u can clearly see ur hand so u guys r wrong. It make sence the first person.

Have you ever held a sword son? if you hold a sword you do see your fist, and yes people DO hold their swords up to their faces depending on style as i posted before. also please take note that the camera is positioned at your jaw/neck but not your eyes in this game.

just watch a kendo video, basic kendo style is with your sword right in your damn face. do u want me to find you a link or can you handle it yourself?

Edit: Correction not basic kendo style, but its a basic 2 handed offensive style.

Edit: You can see it in this video at 2:00 where he's going into Kamae no Kata (Stance Kata 1:55-2:15) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQM2i0d-cJU&feature=bf_play&list=FLdqDV2hfkcVc&index=1

Go ahead and link me to whatever it is that you're talking about because I can't find any examples of someone holding a sword with the hilt in front of their face (while the blade points upward).
Some have the hilt in front of their face while the blade points downward, and sometimes when the blade points towards their opponent, that's true.

But no, I can't find a SINGLE example of someone holding a sword the way our first person oblivion characters do. I would much rather end up being incorrect but at least get to see what you're talking about.


Even in that link you just posted! The guy is holding the sword level with his belly button, over his head at one point, and off to one shoulder, but not in front of his face.
I think you guys are missing my point, again. Maybe I'm not being clear enough.

2.04 is the closest he comes to holding it in front of his face, but even then he's using two hands (which is quite unlike the example I showed in the screenshot I'm talking about) and he's holding it off to one side.

Pick up a nearby object, or even just use an imaginary one and do the one he does at 2:04, just stand up and do it. tell me, isn't it just about as much in front of your face as it would be in the game? its practically in front of his face, maybe a little bit to the right, but thats what its like in the game too, its not in the middle of the screen like in daggerfall and arena! but sure i'll find you a link to a one handed style if i can find one too if you're still not satisfied.

Edit: If you've got a good eye you can see these guys have a similar stance as the first person one in oblivion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q8uQ6D2qO8 even if their footing goes wrong sometimes (amateurs if u will) their style otherwise is just fine, (I learned this [censored] where do you think i'm from! my ancestors would kill a man if they would get a hunch he slept with their wife without premission!)

The problem is that we are defining the screen differently. What I see as "off screen" in their field of view you are clearly seeing as somewhere on-screen.

I think this is just an extension of the problem that while in 1st person your not really seeing through the eyes of your avatar. Your avatar disappears during 1st person view and your treated to an altered "doctored" view of your weapon being held up in front of you.

Personally this has been a peeve of my for some time, if I'm in this avatars body why when I look down do I not see my feet, or legs or chest or anything. It's more like I'm a disembodied spirit walking around with a floating arm holding a sword. If they could fix the real problem of not being able to visually confirm your entire bodies "existence" from the 1st person view-point it would act as a starting point for being able to create a more realistic and less awkward idle 1st person combat animation while not sacrificing visual feed-back, such as, am I holding sword? Is my sword drawn? If I could glance to the right and see my arm holding my sword it wouldn't be a problem. They could accomplish this easily by allowing for a small buffer of camera movement in 1st person before your body follows through with the camera movement while remaining idle, of course if you start moving your body would still direct itself in the direction your camera is pointing. It doesn't seem difficult to fix theoretically at least.

I have to say though, I've never been bothered by the whole "here's my sword" stance. I AM bothered by the fact then when I look down I'm seemingly floating above ground without any real corporeal form.

Every other game does it. If you have a problem with it, go play a third person game.

Way to be solution oriented...

Main reason I don't fight wile using chameleon in Oblivion is that I can not see my weapon, I find it distracting, now imagine you don't have a icon on hud for active weapon like in Oblivion
Yes they could change it so you only saw the upper part of blade and tip, but nice to know that the weapon is drawn and if you are using a dagger, sword or bow.

This doesn't really help games get any better. At all.

I think Saije has the right idea, at least for me. They need to fix the entire first person concept before any useful criticism about where the weapons are being held is productive.

Why can't the first person camera simply be another zoom level of the third person camera? Just have it zoom all the way in to where it sits about 3 inches in front of the avatar's face. Then, looking around, you would see everything just like you would in the 3d person camera, but from the pov of your own eyes.

I disagree with this idea. As people have said before, I want to see how epic my wepaon looks, I want see the detailed hands, the kewl looking hilt. Yeah, it may not be realistic, but last time I checked this is a video game, not real life.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk, but that's how most of the fans see it.

also one very fast solution... http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20891 (modders give you 80% of what you want in 80 out of 100 times you look for something, even if sometimes it hasn't been released yet)

The point is nobody walks around with their hand straight out in front of them

ok... so.. how is this http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7964/oblivion201011081723130.png
and this http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk447/xcentric_14/OPK%20Mega-dungeon%20WIP/Oblivion2010-06-1614-32-31-70.jpg
Straight out in front of you? its obviously to the right of you, and holding your sword in this close in a one handed style is just a part of a basic defensive stance in some styles... its not straight in front of you.

to make clear what "straight out in front of you" is since you and the OP don't seem to realize it... this here http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L78zEKWCMII/TUhtlNU6PrI/AAAAAAAABY4/z-1PxtBE5f8/s1600/Masteryi_Splash_0.jpg that sword is straight in front of him.
this here is not straight in front of him http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L78zEKWCMII/TUhtmlrqNjI/AAAAAAAABY8/_qNDAIZj0IE/s1600/Masteryi_Splash_2.jpg this is the same as the 2 handed sword style in oblivion.

Your sense makes none! :brokencomputer:

Edit> I think MAYBE Possibly thinkably... the guys who are complaining about this are playing at a low resolution so it looks like that on their screen, i guess since i'm playing on widescreen i've never noticed this :foodndrink:

Take something and hold it in your hand in front of you as if you're just standing there. I can see it in my vision. I don't even have to nod my head at all to see my fist, I just move my eyes.
Makes perfect sense to me for it to be the same way on screen. Sure, it's a "little" off from where it should be. But who cares. :shrug:
Besides you.

It has nothing to do with whether the weapon is centered! Look how HIGH it is!

That dwarven claymore's hilt is right in front of the player's chin! He's holding that thing like you would hold a camera, right in front of his face with the blade sticking straight up.

That's GOOFY.

Ok, imagine http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L78zEKWCMII/TUhtmlrqNjI/AAAAAAAABY8/_qNDAIZj0IE/s1600/Masteryi_Splash_2.jpg letting go of that thing with his right hand and just holding the sabre with his left exactly the way it is.

That's how your oblivion character is holding his sword. It's stupid.

I really fail to see how that's stupid, and I disagree. That's exactly how you would hold a massive two handed weapon.
You try to hold a 60 pound two handed weapon. You need the strength from your deltoids and back to hold it, thus that posture is quite accurate.

You fight the ocean... Your gonna drown...

May as well give up Varus, at the end of the day BGS is gonna do what they're gonna do regardless of what you or I or anyone on these forums says for it or against it. It's not worth the energy to get worked up over it.

Basic 1 handed block.. if your left handed. thats what i see. (as if he'd be in the middle of that move) Zaria made a great point tho with that dagger. but i don't see how you see that one handed sword in chin height.. i mean sure its high, higher than it'd usually be i'll admit that. but not so high it seems goofy to me.... and not that close to the chin either. the only way you'll ever get my point is if you go in game, grab a sword in first person mode and draw it, and press the console button "~" and type in TFC close the console, and move around to see your character and what he's really like. if you wont do that i could send u a screenshot!

Please do that. I'm out of town for the spring break and I can't get back to the game for at least a week.
I never knew you could look at your character while they were in first person mode though. I would love to see what it actually looks like from the outside.

Mind you this isn't the same as just looking at the third person view is it? We actually get to see the first person animation from the outside right? I would love that.

In real life you can always see a sword your holding even if its not in your face.
In games you don't have peripheral vision so you wouldn't see it at all.
It would really feel more unrealistic if you couldn't see your sword, its basically imitating peripherals.

It also is better this way so you can see your weapons and attacks.

1: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577790739791708239/160FCDF35A56A4146428EB46FD11F1BDD2C7D9EA/
2: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577790739791712711/BE15B5CB08905275D29C49358DF001732E459145/
3: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577790739791711304/E531EA4E9634A8C673B0FE934C9D13E666EA4BC2/
4: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577790739791752281/F763944A3ADC560C73DC94CA8DD6793DA4B5F38A/
5(3rd person example): http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577790739791751000/F57AAB68A8A133EA8A074605E1B0D1D3FB843E8B/
Edit: 6(1st person example): http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577790739791835803/54E96D51BB37DAC9A84159FF83A9FB4723A85583/

Now you tell me, is this wrong, or is it just the position of the camera thats bugging you? (btw i hope you can see this) i'll admit (as you can see) the first person model is leaning a bit to the right, otherwise theres nothing i can see wrong with it myself :foodndrink:

That isn't nearly as whacked out as I thought it would look. Not nearly.

Yea it must be that the camera is just set into a really bizarre spot. Huh.
I'm glad you showed me those. Really.

Anytime

I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure most first person games place the camera either 6(relative) inches in front of the character's face or in front of their chest. I think that may be the problem.