Speaking as a homosixual myself, I find it interesting when gay and lisbian characters are potrayed in video games, and since Fallout 3 is an open-ended video game set in an apocalyptic North America it's the perfect game enviroment to potray homosixual and bisixual NPCs because in an anarchistic world with no ruling government people, things like prostitution and drugs are easily tolerable so it seems only logical that homosixuality is too.

Anyways I know I could be opening a big can of worms by making this topic, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss the homosixual and bisixual characters in the game. I've taken the liberty to make a list of every known character who is either gay or bisixual.

Clover: The slave bodyguard that can be purchased by Eulogy Jones. She appears to be bisixual as she will flirt with the main character regardless of his or her gender.

Nova: The prosttute working at Moriarty's Saloon who also seems to be bisixual. She will sleep with the main character for caps regardless if they are male or female.

Anthony Ling: The owner of the clothing store in Tenpenny Tower. He seems to be based off the architypical "gay fashion designer", he is obsessed with pre-war fashion and often uses the word "fabulous". Also Millicent tells her husband about how he's always teasing the male guards and when talking to Chief Gestavo he tends to flirt with the security chief who always rejects his advances.

Carol and Gretta: The two ghouls who run Carol's Place in the city of Underworld. It seems that they are quite possibly a lisbian couple as Carol mentions that she and Gretta have "been together" for many years and admits that Gretta was always jealous of her adobtive son Gob. Gretta also seems to be very protective of Carol.


I think Anthony is the one who is the most obviously gay, but at the same time I find it a little offensive that his character is such a negative stereotype. However I guess that was done on purpose as every resident in Tenpenny Tower is a negative stereotype based on the concept of snooty rich bigots.

Ok, here's the deal... these threads have a tendency to go all sorts of wrong because some people have to bring in their personal prejudices and real world socio-politics into a discussion about something in game. I am willing to let you all try this topic... again... on the assumption that you will behave in a reasonably mature manner. And if the subject matter is not to your liking for whatever reason... move on, don't post. Got it?

I think it's awesome when I encounter a fluid sixual character in a game. Fallout 3 and F:NV seem to have the most.

I understand, the thought that this topic was a bad idea did cross my mind, but there's nothing else to really talk about in the game anymore so I thought I'd try something a bit more untouch. If this topic does get out of hand and needs to be locked I just want to apologize ahead of time. I hope everyone can act mature for this disussion. :unsure:

I'm strait but, I do love how Bethesda and Obsidian handle the whole Homosixual/Bisixual topic with some class.And, I give Obsidian big points for the whole Confirmed Bachelor Perk.I'm not scared to say that I use it for some laughs here and there, it's great to try something new in the game.But like I said, hats of too both of them, for keeping it classy.

There are no openly gay characters in Fallout 3. There is hints to it. Maybe Nova but then again she is supposed to be a prosttute. Just because she sleeps with female characters does not mean she likes it.

New Vegas is the first to have openly gay characters.

Anthony Ling is openly gay, just listen to him when he talks to Chief Gestavo...

I guess you got me on that one. One of thsose things you have to overhear.

If he is openly gay then he is the only one in Fallout 3.

New Vegas there are characters that come rightout and say they are gay. Veronica and Arcade Gannon to name two. There are more.

Well as you said Nova sleeps with men and women because she's a prosttute, and the same can be said for Clover who's like a weird bodyguard/concubine combination. There's not a lot of evidence to suggest Carol and Gretta's relationship but I think it's possible they could be a lisbian couple due to hints in Carol's dialog.

There's speculation, mind you, speculation about Flak and Shrapnel in Rivet City, but the only 'evidence' there are some comments by people who claim to have worked on localized translations. From what they said, footnotes from the developers (to help give correct context to the dialogues) confirm them as a gay couple.

Oh, and one of the slavers from Paradise Falls calls Flak an 'old queen' if you enslave him.

I like variety in my games, I have nothing aggainst race, color or creed sixual prefrence included. I thought the homosixual/bisixual charactors really added to the: Its the new world and no one cares. Its funny to see that ghouls/mutants are now the chosen minority to be prejudice aggainst. Funny weird not haha funny, just to make it clear

Thanks for keeping topic unlocked moderator.

I didn't know about Ling, but suspected some of the others.

I thought Flack was for the same comments made at paradise falls (and therefore Shrapnel) later backed up by how Shrapnel behaves after losing Flak. But I couldn't find anything that actually made it clear they were..... perhaps this is deliberate (perhaps for all the couples there's an element of guessing and assuming?). Anyway until this point I wasn't sure if they were lovers or just business partners which after lamenting on it made me feel quite positive towards the game dev's becasue it appeaered they were including same six couples in the game without adding the gay steriotype. Vegas of course has taken this to another level, and removed the steriotype at the same time as prety much making it obvious that they are homosixual, which I think is a very positive move and step forward.

Perhaps we will get a whole mixture of sixuality in the next FO game or maybe they will start to play a little bit more with religion. Certainly some more boundaries can be pushed and tested through gaming, assuming the developers still have the cahonies for it! Enclave and Ashur supporters show that people are taking more liberal vews towards things like terrorism and slavery. So at the end of the day I'm sure the community will be equally as liberal with more openly gay characters as well.

Who are you calling a terrorist? :stare:

As for Shrapnel, I never could find confirmation whether his (quite inconvenient) disappearance was indeed a sign of devotion or a scripting error. Works pretty well with the circumstances, though, giving a bit of a 'your actions have consequences for people' vibe.

No one in particular but if you know of any let me know and I'll send the Regulators round to talk them through the errors of their ways The use of Garden Gnomes, chanting & punga fruit in their correctional methods is most...... intriging!

Never thought about Shrapnel behavoir being down to scripting error, but yeh either way it does add to the guilt I felt afterwards!

Anthony 'upgrade to fabulous' Ling is certainly gay, and a bit of a stereotype.

I'm not sure about Carol and Greta, Mr Sesame. I always saw Greta as an adoptive daughter and her jealously of Gob was due to vying for mum's attention. I could be completely wrong, though. :blush2:

I'd never heard the dialogue about Flak when captured at Paradise Falls. It would pretty much confirm it, though. Speaking of Flak, I'm pretty sure he made a cameo appearance in New Vegas, as Ranger Jackson at Mojave Outpost. There's no mistaking that moustache! :laugh:

I don't like Ling, he's the only homosixual character in F3 and his entire character revolves around it almost like a joke, "listen to the funny gay fashion man say fabulous and ta-ta, I don't know it just leaves a bit of a bad taste and I'm not usually the one to get on a high horse about stereotyping, it has to originate somwhere right? But as the only one Ling is just... meh. Fallout: New Vegas handles it well like Arcade, his homosixuality is just mentioned in passing and isn't in any way important too him, if he wasn't gay then so what :shrug:.

Oh yeah, I remember Grouse referring to Flak as "Old Queen Flak", and since he lives with a guy who happens to be his business partner I guess it is possible that he's gay.

I agree that Anthony is a stereotype, but then again all the NPCs in Tenpenny Tower are stereotypes.

Greta and Carol are definitely partners. Something about the way Greta will talk to a female LW, she makes a particularly possessive comment I can't recall at the moment.

The problem with using any kind of sixuality for characters is that you can't avoid stereotypes for het or homosixual, though when they do homosixual it's almost always a stereotype because...well, sadly, even in our modern society, het is just seen as "normal" and continues to be "assumed" until proven otherwise. Anthony Ling is "flaming" but it's hard to portray the fact that he's gay without, well, making him appear flaming. However, as with Greta/Carol, I picked up on that right away but it was subtle and, in my opinion, tasteful.

Flak/Shrapnel, there were no cues, subtle or otherwise. I had to learn via wiki that they were a couple...

Two things, I guess.

1. I could make the argument that sixuality shouldn't matter, because anyone of any leaning should be able to have any job in the Fallout Universe, and therefore doesn't really have a place in the games.

2. In counter-point, though, if you remove all of that stuff, the game becomes very, very bland. The characters are a very important part of making the whole world seem real. At minimum, humans are emotional creatures that require companionship in some capacity from others. Therefore, it is important that the characters are shown to have many kinds of relationships, romantic and otherwise.

tl;dr of it all is that this is generally a very sticky situation. Too much "openness" and you have a game of stereotypes. Too little and the characters are hardly worth interacting with.

Well there are plenty of hetrosixual stereotypes in the game too, especially regarding certain male characters like Dukov, Eulogy, and Ronald. It seems like the common stereotype for hetrosixual men is that they're all huge perverts that are so obsessed with having six with women that they'll willingly have a threesome with multiple female partners, and that they don't really care about the women they have six with other than their physical appearance.

I find that to be a highly negative stereotype about hetrosixual men because I know not all men are like that, but that is the common assumption that we see everywhere in the media.

Indeed -- which is why I tried to use "stereotype" for a very heavy general description, because it applies to all sixualities.

These two are poor examples of what you mean. Clover is a slave conditioned to be a compliant six partner for her Master. Nova is basically a Indentured Servant obliged to service Moriarty's customers....if he told her to service all comers that is what she has to do. As if in the event Moriarty dies Nova quits prostitution and takes up openly with Gob (when she says she would never take Gob as a client, she's telling a half truth....she won't take him as a client because he's already her lover) about all that can really be inferred by what she does at work is that she doesn't have a pathological issue with engaging in six with women.



The Enclave is pretty much the liberal stereotype of how the GOP would run the US if no one stopped them.....one of the things I just have to overlook to enjoy the game. Ashur is interesting as unlike Caesar he actually has concern for others and seemingly could be persuaded to moderate his Regime if given options. I'm kind of a svcker for survival against impossible odds stories like Ashur's anyway.



Eulogy is a monster...there to fall to the LW's righteous wrath or be thier partner in crime...it's not fair to lump him in with Dukov and Ronald, who whatever their faults don't force themselves on women. And we're all slaves to our biology....instinct mandates spreading one's seed as far and wide as possible. Institutions like marriage were developed to rein that in. And straight men who would turn down a threesome if offered are probably few and far between. Looks aren't everything but the traits most men find appealing in women also usually happen to be indicators of good health....that she will be able to bear healthy and strong children...even if we don't consciously realize it.

Bittercup will "date" both male and female lone wanderers :thumbsup:

I've never was looking for it, but also never noticed any homosixual/bisixual characters.

That is until I read posts on other threads about the possibility of Flak and Shrapnel being a couple. Until I read that I never thought of it.



I'm not sure, but on my last character which was female, I seemed to remember that Bittercup acted less friendly with her versus a previous male character. And both were good karma and both complimented her. I could be mistaken but I think I noticed a difference. But also as I recall (from the wiki) it's noted that she has dated pretty much everyone in Bigtown, men and women. So that's a good catch. But that could be more due to her character struggling with trying to find an identity vs being bisixual.

I also agree with some posts above that Clover and Nova are not good examples of bisixuals because of their respective backgrounds.

[edit] i didnt read the above posts

OK so Clover and Nova only sleep with both genders because they're professional "rhymes-with-chores" who do it as part of their occupations. It's still close enough to being bisixual no matter how you try to look at it, so trying to get all technical about it is pretty pointless imo.

Also I forgot about Bittercup and since she willingly dates your character regardless of your gender I guess that does make her count as a true bisixual, because unlike Nova and Clover she does it by choice rather than because she's forced to.

Oh and Eulogy may be more of a monster than Dukov and Ronald, but you're missing the point. He's still a stereotype: a male pimp who abuses women then sleeps with them. Dukov and Ronald are not as evil but they're still perverts who have no respect for women.