First of all, I want to say this.

This thread is NOT for people who want to insult other people. If you have differing beliefs, please be advlt about it or do NOT post in this thread, or else it will be locked (either at my request, or when the moderators notice your posts).

This thread is for intelligent discussion of the presence of Homosixuality in the Elder Scrolls universe, specifically TES IV: Oblivion.

Under no circumstances can anyone insult or attack any person, real or NPC, involved in this thread.

Anyway, on to the discussion.

I've never really noticed any presence of homosixuality, implied or otherwise, in the Elder Scrolls universe until I happened across a Journal of one of the characters.

Viranus Donton, in his journal, talks about his close relationship with Eduard Hodge, who he'd been spending a large amount of time with and becoming very fond of. Here are some quotes from the Journal (careful not to include spoilers).

"Thank the gods for Eduard. I fear without him I would go mad. His constant companionship keeps me hopeful [for the future]. Until then, we have each other. He has willingly forgone [well-paying jobs] in order to help me pass the days. A truer companion I could not imagine."
and
"I fear he is as na?ve as he is beautiful."

Being that I've been playing Oblivion almost since it came out and I'd never noticed this (I still find new things on a regular basis, actually... what a great game! ), I was wondering if there are any other mentions of it, implied or otherwise, in Oblivion. And feel free to post your own opinions on other NPCs, even if it is not directly implied in the game, and explain why you think they are.

Homosixuality is gaining a larger and larger place in our society today (though it has always been there, it is becoming more open in the recent years) and I am curious to see what kind of presence it has in Cyrodiil.

A Note to Moderators: I sincerely hope that you will leave this thread open for discussion, as controversial as it may be, and only close it if someone decides to make immature and ignorant posts. Though if this would be more appropriate in Cheats, Hints, & Spoilers, please move it there. Thanks!

never noticed that book
were is it

It is found in one of the higher-ranking Fighter's Guild quests, specifically http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trolls_of_Forsaken_Mine (Spoiler Alert).

I should have found that the amount of time's I've done that quest

I can't say I've even noticed it one way or the other in Oblivion, but there were definitely gay and bisixual characters in Morrowind. It's normally pretty subtle, though - as all sixuality is in those games.

In Morrowind, yes. You'd have to be crazy to miss the hints being dropped by old Crassius Curio. Then again, every aspect of sixuality was a little more prominent in Morrowind. Take Desele's House of Earthly Delights as an example. Chances are that isn't the only establishment of that kind on Tamriel. And sixuality was even more prominent in Daggerfall, but that discussion would probably be better suited for TES General, I guess.

The only other reference to sixuality in Oblivion that I can think of off the top of my head would be Mirabelle Monet's nightly escapades with the patrons of her inn.

No one thought that the Adoring Fan eagerly offering you a back-rub wasn't a bit of a giveaway?

I always presumed that Sabine Laul and Rasheda are a couple. At least Sabine always shows up at Rasheda's in the evening and doesn't leave until the following morning, which I just considered something of a giveaway.

And yeah-- I noticed that reference in Viranus' journal. It's not completely overt, but fairly obvious.

To be honest, I've got my suspicions regarding Shum gro-Yarug's sixuality, and that whole "Orc Social Club" thing, but they're only suspicions.....

Well, as bi-sixuality go's.
Some of the Npc tend to make the same advancing comments to the PC, no matter if your male or female.
E.g. Dumag gro-Bonk(although I always thought him to be more on the gay side)...and some others who can't seem to come to mind right now.

Discussion of six is pretty meager, safe for the SI.
Dervenin tells you about the orgies that would be held during the parties of Arrden-Sul and
Sontaire is as shallow as can be towards males, not to speak of her bedroom.

Damnit, it's too late, mind's fuzzy.
Can't think of more.

"Thank the gods for Eduard. I fear without him I would go mad. His constant companionship keeps me hopeful [for the future]. Until then, we have each other. He has willingly forgone [well-paying jobs] in order to help me pass the days. A truer companion I could not imagine."
and
"I fear he is as na?ve as he is beautiful."

Are you talking about this? I don't find this homosixuality.

I agree. Especially in medieval times (Oblivion is an medieval fantasy game) it wasn't strange if a man said to another man he was beautiful.

But you're failing to take into account the rest of Tamriellic history and culture.

Yes, in medieval times it was fairly common. Though it really peaked in the times of the Greek and Roman empires. But there are different 'cultural norms' for the people of Tamriel, as well as a different societal past.

I'm proud of this forum.
No one has said that your are a fruity gay or made a yo momma joke.

On topic, guards tell you that they like it when you talk tough and everyone comments on the "muscles on you".

Wait for it...

The diary the the most implicit hint at possible homosixuality in the game.

BTW, the entire Donton story is touching and sad.

As mentioned above there is the possibility for Sabina Laul and Rasheda. Also Carwen and Mithrendel live together. But of course that doesn't really mean anything.

Perhaps sixuality in a TES game should be optional. In Morrowind, having Crassius Curio tell you to undress in order to get a promotion (sponsorship), and having no way around it, that put me off.


When you coerce anyone (even a guard) and they say that, doesn't that lowertheir disposition toward you?

Why would that put you off? Unless you are homophobic, all I could see it doing is making you feel uncomfortable. And that is what made Morrowind awesome. The first time Crassius Curio talked to me was very weird, but when a game can make you feel that way, you know it's good.

Also, it's not like it's out of place to have some pervert in House Hlaalu.

@nullbyte00 & King Shane: Your posts are a little 'on-the-line' of what's acceptable here. Please keep all insulting remarks, whether directed at someone or not, out of this thread. Thanks.

The story of the Dontons is quite sad. One of the most... crushing... discoveries of any quest line. Except perhaps the discovery of Lucien's fate, but when I play as an assassin, I'm rather detached from people, so it was more of a 'meh' moment for me.

Back on topic: I've never noticed most of the NPCs you guys are mentioning living/sleeping together. Or if I had, I never thought anything of it. What other evidence is there of sixuality and homosixuality in the Shivering Isles? I don't have much experience doing quests or talking to the denizens of Sheogorath's Madhouse.

Why does it have to be "homophobic" right away? For that matter, if one guy compliments another on their muscles, why's that have to be considered homosixual?

Even if Crassius Curio had been a woman, it still would have put me off. Here I'm trying to get promotion and she wants me to undress for her? Selfish and indecent no matter who.
I wouldn't be surprised if a self respecting woman would have given Crassius a solid slap upside the head for that.

Perfect example of "optional" is Ahnassi. You don't have to bother with her if you don't want to.

On topic: if it were Morrowind, I could think of a few, but I can't think of any from Oblivion that haven't been mentioned already. Representation of homosixual people is definately lacking in Oblivion.

When the guards say "Look at the muscles on you," it seems to me that they're talking to themselves more than they're talking to you. Always puts a smile on my face

Never noticed. Nice thing about Oblivion. Look for what you want. See what you choose. The game is vague enough to allow that in so many areas.

OT: Hey Punk - you are doing a great job at controlling your thread! :goodjob:

sixuality in hidden in pockets all over the game. The only brazen homosixual thing I've noticed was the armorer in Bliss (cant remember these fangled orc names )

Falanu Hlaalu is the big thing that bringd your mind to a screatching halt.

not sure exactley where but playing as a theif and breaking into peoples homes and just general quarters (mages guilds, fighters guilds) will usually yeild the find of a double bed and every now and then you can find 2 same six people in said bed

I"ve said it before and I'll say it again: You can get quite an education by staying awake all night in the Skingrad MG. Vigge and Erethor... Only one who stays out of the whole thing is the Argonian.

I've never seen that, that's really cool. I always play as a female, but my fiance says that male NPCs say suggestive things to his male character.