I've been playing the last two installments of Elder Scrolls (Oblivion and Morrowind) and call myself a fan of the series. Despite the world being completely open and rich with complexity, I've always appreciated the clean approach the game has to questing, battling and overall interaction with the world. A key ingredient here is to have a world that is believable, but to leave out elements that do not fair well in the trade off between realism and pragmatism. Take toilet breaks, regular sleep and eating for instance. None of those are relevant in the world of Elder Scrolls, and a character will happily quest for weeks on end without any food, sleep or relief. This however has never caused me to loose immersion in the game, nor do I hear much complaints about it from the community, showing that this was probably a well made decision regarding the practical flow of the game by dispensing with some basic human realism.

For many parts of the game, fans can probably bicker for days on end about whether the decision in this trade off was well made. Toilet breaks - few would care less, but the inclusion of children for instance has always been a staple issue for fans of the series. Their omission in earlier series has certainly reduced the realism of the world, thereby reducing immersion slightly, with the other end of the trade off being the practical gain that a children slaying option for a game is not very popular marketing wise. I, for one, am very happy that children will be included in the next iteration, making it that much easier to immerse in a world where a clear lack of children simply irks.

This brings me to a different 'lack' in the world of The Elder Scrolls, and I shall be brief here. Despite romance not being at all relevant so far in the series, there is a clear inclusion of it as far as couples, families and general conversations go while enjoying the game world. Inn-keepers do have spouses and scoundrels do allude to the fairer six. Albeit another detail, it irks me again that there is little to no inclusion of any LGBT material in Tamriel, to the same extent as childless villages. Homosixuality is a fact of life in our reality, and seeing as how 95% of the behaviour of our human species has made it into the game, it is unlikely that there is not a single gay, lisbian, transgendered or bisixual person in the whole of Tamriel. Not even amongst the elfs (which, despite being a tired cliche, does make even more sense with their relative wisdom, age and openness). It does not require any active plot or main character to restore this balance, but there is no practical argument against the inclusion of LGBT NPCs, and yet a considerable amount of increased realism to gain. An inn-keep and her wife or a legend about two valiant princes would do.

Other popular rpgs (eg. Mass Effect, Dragon Age) have included LGBT realism in their game worlds (despite being heavy on some nasty tired tropes in that regard), so I cannot see why Skyrim should not at least count a few sturdy Nord battle-partners, or perhaps even a lovely dragon couple of similar gender. It should not bother anyone (if it does, the rock you live under should bother you more) and there are at least some people out there who would benefit from this addition when immersing themselves in the next Elder Scrolls game.

TES shouldn't be a Mercedes Lackey novel....
Sorry.

...Wow. Why do people seem to think including gay characters will somehow make TES something it isn't?

Christ, guys, it's 2011, not 1911.

I don't think it's too much to ask to have a couple gay couples scattered about. Even if subtle, I think it would add a degree of realism. I don't think, however, it should be proudly shown by the virtual LGBT characters. I'm not very keen on the lore of TES, but from what I can tell, it's comparable to a time in world history (I dare not name a time period in fear of mislabeling at 5:45am)

:toughninja: Gets the popcorn. :popcorn: :toughninja:

I would rather they spend time putting horses into the game then making up gay npc's to please you. No offense but somethings are more important and immersive then someones relationship. I don't care if you are straight, gay or bisixual it does not add anything to my game experience, horses however do.

It wont get out of control unless people decide to be brainless about it. The last time a thread like this came up, it lasted 11 pages.

And its not cool to try and /thread when the OP clearly put some thought and effort into it. Obviously not everyone will agree on romance and homosixuality, but if someone feels the need to present the topic in an intelligent manner, you really shouldnt try to end his thread like that.

I am put off by the general tone of the OP and will keep my distance from this thread except for this one post to say I am against this idea.

The gods in tamriel, if they were mortals, would probably be classed as sixual deviants. I also don't think they much care about individual people's daily lives.

Maybe in a mod?

I would also argue with the "95% of human behavior has made it into TES" statistic. Given the limitations of the AI, I would say it's a far lower figure. And there are plenty of other aspects of human culture besides LGBT culture that haven't made it into the game.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1162941-sixual-preference/.

There is some inclusion of homosixuality in elder scrolls, even if its only hinted at.

I cant remember the exact book, but there is one in wich a Khajit talks about not neglecting your lust, and teaming up with a 'wanton young lass or lad, or several in any combination. Wichever your loins desire.'

And then theres Viranus Donton who is sweet on his Eduard in Oblivion.

I think its nice if there are some less traditional loves in the game.
It makes people feel included.

Homosixuality has been alluded to in previous TES games. I like that all sixuality is for the most part reduced to allusions and inferences, as I wouldn't want any kind of sixuality/PC romance to be a main feature of the game.

I don't think it matters how frowned upon gay relationships are in the world of Tameriel, they would still be present even if less out in the open just like throughout human history. I think it would add to the game world as a whole if it was included in some way or other.

I`ve got nothing against sixual diversity in real life, but having it in Skyrim would be at the bottom of my list of things i`d like implemented in the game.

I think it would add something indeed. There have, however, been one or more gay NPCs in the series, though. The only one I can remember is Crassius Curio of House Hlaalu.

For me personally , i dont need to know or care anything about the sixual orentation of the npc's ... :shakehead:

And even if they did , it would end up being as a stereotype

Thank you for the relative maturity of posts in this discussion. However, I have been a dufus for not doing a proper search beforehand. I simply searched wrong and somehow missed the humongous and much better initially phrased topics already on this topic, with arguments very similar to mine.

If NPCs can "recognise" each other in Skyrim, I reckon it will be easier to show relationships between NPCs without it seeming like it was shoehorned in - so a couple (of whatever mix) would have different conversations between themselves than with other people. That would do it for me (it was one of my bug bears in OB that NPCs had the same random conversation with everyone, even if they were friends, strangers, spouses etc).

I'm for diversity in life and in games. I agree with the OP that Tes could be better with all kind of romance while I'd hate to see this component become prevalent or forced into the main quest, I think it would be a great addition as complementary options. The thing is romance is hard to pull off. I enjoy romance in the Bioware games, but I think it's much easier to do it right in story-driven games than in sandbox ones (not that I want to minimize the talent at Bioware, they are very good at what they're doing).

To be honest, I couldn't care less about any supposed benefits to "realism" or "immersion" that might accrue to having homosixual NPCs. What I think is important is that the mass media, in general, does not present homosixuality as some sort of deviant behaviour. Bethesda can do their part in this regard by not sweeping homosixuality under the rug in a game which does have some sixual themes, however mild. In other words, if Bethesda are going to include any sixual themes at all in TES, they ought to ensure that some of that includes a respectable portrayal and representation of homosixuality.

*Ugh* Leave the "ultra-realism" out of TES. It doesn't add to the immersion, it adds to annoyance and stress.

Because having a digital NPC being in the same faction... er, family as a digital NPC with the same body model would add to annoyance and stress.

Like, seriously? If TES is going to have any sort of relationships in the game (Especially between NPCs, as there has always been), a minority of them should be gay. Not a bioware minority, where every other character is gay, just not so they're completely absent. It's not about "ultra realism", it's about "gay people exist and always have".

I completely agree. Maybe finding a journal of a gay man, or perhaps a bar ran by two men who don't openly claim to be gay, but will not deny if asked. Something like that would be interesting, but I think player-character love affairs are generally boring.

I don't care if homosixuality is included or not. I wouldn't mind if it was.

If people want to discuss, as long as the discussion stays within the forum rules, they can discuss the topic.

If you aren't interested in the topic, and don't want to post to contribute to the topic, it really takes less effort to completely ignore the thread than it does to post in it.