But why isn't Cyrus ALWAYS the Hoon Ding? It is a spirit, so does Cyrus get a new soul?


side note:
While SI showed us you could become kindness: It existes in TES nad isn't one of the Aedra, so it must be an Et'ada. if you can become a Daedra, you can become an Et'ada

Aedra are et'ada. Just as Daedra are et'ada.

While it could very well be argued that when mantling, say, a Daedric lord or the Missing god, you are just as equally mantling the underlying concepts those represent... As has been outlined before, the Hoon Ding is attained via the right set of prerequisites. If you don't have all the prerequisites, you are not the Hoon Ding. If you had the prerequisites at one time but do not have them in the present, then you were the Hoon Ding at one time but are not now.

i suggest you re-read my first post. it explains this fully.

eh, i'll save you the trouble. the HoonDing is not a spirit, it is a concept. like kindness, democracy, or freedom. It requires a very specific set of conditions, and one is only the HoonDing while these conditions are in effect. For Cyrus, this ment that he was the HoonDing only while fighting Richton.

When you mantle Sheogorath or Lorkhan you are not mantling the concept, you are mantling the person by reenacting a set of events and assuming upon yourself a set of characteristics which apply to the person you are mantling. as opposed to just being really bat[censored] crazy and becoming Sheo all of a sudden.

Well, ideas have power. The Hoon Ding is wild, like the Crowns, and untameable, like the untainted human spirit of the redguard. Therefore, unlike the ideas of Time and Love and Prophecy and Destruction, it takes no physical form as the other gods. Just my random opinion.

What?

That crown metaphor doesn't have much validity, seeing as the HoonDing is also a Sword....

What I meant was the Hoon Ding doesn't bind itself to a body unless it "wants" to, and the crowns would only join the empire as allies and not subjects. I didn't mean a deep metaphor, just that simple idea. Never look at what I say for something deep or multilayered.

Yet could it not be argued that the person in these cases is the concept in its purest and most primordial form? And in the case of the Daedra (and even other et'ada), aren't Lord, Sphere, and Realm all one and the same? Sheogorath is madness. Akatosh/Auriel is time. So to mantle the person is to mantle the concept. The difference between a madman and a madgod is that the madgod is the source which affects the madman, and the highest form of madness that the madman attempts to emulate.

Not necessarily. The god provides a MEANS of mantling the concept. If you mantled Madness (NOT Sheog), then every insane person would be the God of Madness.

but only when Lorkhan meets the conditions apparently

maybe the following vivec quote has a bearing - but the intermixing of souls also plays a part?




Vivec's mention of the Hist is as usual interesting though I do not know to what it refers. Ofc the more interesting Vivec becomes the warier I become but the concept of the reach of the Hist suggests as has been claimed before that either the Hist are not immobile or in ways mysterious their reach is awesome - and that is furhter evidence of the advanced nature of the Hist

The Hist are more a metaphysical creature(s) than anything else. After all, the world operates on the mythic level. If these creatures have the power to give intelligence (among other things) to Lizards, in a world where if you do anything significant like that, you need significant amounts of mythical or symbolic clout, then I'm certain they can flex their muscles beyond the great divide.

Clearly for this idea to work, not all Lorkhans could be Hoon-Dings, but all Hoon-Dings would be Lorkhans. As it were.

Eye of argonia reference.

When I read that, I just thought it implied Cyrus was a bad motha [censored]a.

He is to be the incarnation of a god at one point.

What?

In the end, it should be established that Cyrus WAS the HoonDing and currently is not.

/thread

Just combine these two statements and then yeah, you're right nine-er. /thread.