Hoon Ding : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:51 pm

So Cyrus the Redgaurd cannot be defeated? does this also mean that he can't die?

As he, by the rules of the universe, cannot be defeated, then why wouldn't he show up and beat the [censored] out of Dagon? or Dagoth? We know he beat the [censored] out of Mephala, Na'Gasta as well, and he tricked Vivec. not sure which of those accomplishments is the greatest...

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:08 pm

Can't be defeated, but probably has died already of natural causes. My bet's on Scurvy!

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:16 pm

Noooooooooo! WHY COULDN'T HE HAVE svckED THE LIME!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:54 pm

In my (limited) understanding, Cyrus WAS the HoonDing. That is, he's not CURRENTLY the HoonDing, and I use http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/viveccyrus.shtml as a reference:

"The young ansu dropped his stance. 'He cannot be beaten,' he told Cyrus, 'We know every sword move created in history, and none of them would avail you, even if you learned them from our memories-in-stone, which we would be obliged to lend you if you asked. You killed the white king in the Hammerfell, after all.'

'What?' Cyrus said. 'The Emperor? I didn’t kill him.'

'Of course you did; you were the Hoon Ding.'"

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:40 pm

Can't be defeated, but probably has died already of natural causes. My bet's on Scurvy!

There is this little tidbit from his sword meeting:

Vivec lifted his legs to float in the lotus position, his head to the side with the smile vanished and replaced by a dole of remorse without mocking. "I know how you die," he said, "and the trouble your soul will have reaching the far shores of your taken stars because of things you did to the discredit of the Hist, and how their long roots run even into the void tendril-feeling for your final entrance.

Seems as though after this and Redguard, Cyrus is pretty much gone from history. But Cyrus can still die, he is mortal after all. Vivec does tell him he will die, and so far we can only assume this to be true, because Cyrus isn't heard of at all outside the end of the 2nd era. I'm going to gander to say he died sometime in the early third era. As to what ended him is unknown. Seems that he will also have a hard time ascending maybe? Could be something to do with the Redguard's creation myth or something.

Would be nice if there were more information about Cyrus. He really was quite the BA.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:54 am

In my (limited) understanding, Cyrus WAS the HoonDing. That is, he's not CURRENTLY the HoonDing, and I use http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/viveccyrus.shtml as a reference:

"The young ansu dropped his stance. 'He cannot be beaten,' he told Cyrus, 'We know every sword move created in history, and none of them would avail you, even if you learned them from our memories-in-stone, which we would be obliged to lend you if you asked. You killed the white king in the Hammerfell, after all.'

'What?' Cyrus said. 'The Emperor? I didn't kill him.'

'Of course you did; you were the Hoon Ding.'"

But later in the pasage they refer to him as the Hoon Ding,

We are telling to Hoon Ding to run

Another idea, Pankratosword cuts the "Atmos," right? so maybe it splits atoms, which would release the weak and strong atomic forces, and then create a massive blast: like an atom bomb. If enough atom bombs hit an island, it could sink, right? So Pankratosword could* in theory be a way to split atoms with your sword.

*Just an ideea. i don't strongly believe this at all: it's more modern and scientific and less magical, and Tamriel has a tendency of leaning toward magic.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:55 pm

the Pankratosword IS a way to cut atoms. It uses the Redguard's version of a lightsaber to execute the move, and it did cause Yukoda to sink from an atomic explosion.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:20 pm

Thats exactly what the Pankratosword does.

» Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:29 am

He also said that the HoonDing wouldn't manifest himself in Cyrus in his next fight, so my point still stands.

And you should believe rather strongly in your idea because thats exactly what it is.

Ninja'd too smoothly... <_<

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:20 pm

so for once my overactive brain came up with a CORRECT theory i relation to TES? there's a first for everything...

He also said that the HoonDing wouldn't manifest himself in Cyrus in his next fight, so my point still stands.

And you should believe rather strongly in your idea because thats exactly what it is.

Ninja'd too smoothly... <_<

no, he says

The elder looked through the floor of the hold. "At least not now," he said, "The Hoon Ding would show you that he will not manifest in you in this fight

And as Cyrus scared the [censored] out of Vivec, I think the Hoon Ding actually was on his side.

» Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:32 am

The Hoon Ding who killed the Emperor and Richton was both Cyrus and Prince A'Tor (Crown and Sword). I wonder what became of Cyrus' soul, and if its linked with A'Tor's soul which was, from my view, implied to remain in the sword. Maybe the Hoon Ding's soul wanders Nirn like Lorkhan's?

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:25 pm

another thing about redguard, but not on this same topic: i just finished the simple translation of Na'Gasta's necromancy book, and it all makes sense besides for the words, "Baware" which I am SURE isn't actually Beware, and iacanith. is an iancnith a kind on ingame plant? i have never played an alchemist, and the only ingredients i would no are a hakle-to, scrib jelly, sload-soap, daedra hearts, vampire dust, and the meats.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:56 pm

You can look that up yourself, can't you? Jacinth is a jewel, maybe you just translated poorly. Also, hyacinth is close.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:24 pm

that part wasn't translating, it was in small lettered english. and BAWARE doesn't mean anything, i looked.

look:

THE TIME IS NOW

THE CURSE IS SPOKEN

ARISE DEMON AND BE NAMED VENGEANCE

(next page)

The iacinth wakes the rising sun.
and snow blankets the grass.

But night o'ertakes the mid-day sky.
and the gate is opened at last

BAWARE

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:49 pm

None of it means anything.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:08 pm

no, he says

And as Cyrus scared the [censored] out of Vivec, I think the Hoon Ding actually was on his side.

That's the fight I was talking about. WTF?

And I could just as easily say that Vivec, being something of a clairvoyant, knew that Cyrus didn't know what he was doing and simply because he liked Cyrus.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:22 pm

the Hoon Ding is not a person, it is a state of being. When the conditions are met, and only while they are met, anyone can become the Hoon Ding. Cyrus became such while he (a Crown) was in possession of Prince Ator's Soul-Sword (the Sword) and was in direct combat with the invading Imperials (the Infidels). As soon as Richton (and through him the invading Empire) was defeated, Cyrus stopped being the Hoon Ding. Anything else he did he did on his own power, since the prerequisites of the Hoon Ding were no longer met.

» Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:07 am

the Hoon Ding is not a person, it is a state of being. When the conditions are met, and only while they are met, anyone can become the Hoon Ding. Cyrus became such while he (a Crown) was in possession of Prince Ator's Soul-Sword (the Sword) and was in direct combat with the invading Imperials (the Infidels). As soon as Richton (and through him the invading Empire) was defeated, Cyrus stopped being the Hoon Ding. Anything else he did he did on his own power, since the prerequisites of the Hoon Ding were no longer met.

Exactly what I meant. Thanks, yo.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:04 pm

Well... I don't know much about TES Lore... so I probably shouldn't be in here.

But I saw the name Cyrus, and my favorite Dunmer First Mate (Malvulis) sings a little song every now and then.

"There once was hardy young lad of the sea. A Redguard of courage and honor was he. Sail on, my Cyrus, sail on."

I think "There once was" means... he's gone.

Again, I don't know much about Lore, so if I'm wrong just... ignore this post. :shrug:

She sings it around the Waterfront District of IC sometimes, I noticed it with a Beggar character I made up while I was walking to the docks to wash my clothes.

» Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:31 am

The Hoon Ding who killed the Emperor and Richton was both Cyrus and Prince A'Tor (Crown and Sword). I wonder what became of Cyrus' soul, and if its linked with A'Tor's soul which was, from my view, implied to remain in the sword. Maybe the Hoon Ding's soul wanders Nirn like Lorkhan's?

Here's an idea for you, because we all love Lorkhan so much: The Hoon Ding is an aspect of Lorkhan.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:46 pm

so... he tamp-mantled the Hoon Ding to beat back them Empire, but used his own bad-assery to scare the crap out of Vivec?

That's why I like the sword-meeting.

Cyrus: "Oh, elven leech-god fakeout? Well up yours, I'm gonna show you the power of humans!" (Pretends to prepare for atomic explosion)

VivecL "[censored] this!" (Runs away like a little [censored]).

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:49 pm

Its a case of being in the right place at the right time. I guess you could say mantled, but I think that term is overly used and unnecessary. There may not even be a word for it in yoku.

I'm being nit-picky because I'm curious. Plus Lady N. didn't say anything about mantling in her description, and it was a complete description.

» Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:18 am

Its a case of being in the right place at the right time. I guess you could say mantled, but I think that term is overly used and unnecessary. There may not even be a word for it in yoku.

I'm being nit-picky because I'm curious. Plus Lady N. didn't say anything about mantling in her description, and it was a complete description.

No, she didn't, but filling all the prerequisites just sounded like mantling to me. In any case, he was the Hoon Ding when he chased out the Empire, but was just Cyrus the Restless when he scared the loincloth-whatsit off a false god. That's gotta count for something.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:52 pm

Cyrus can't be a ding all the time?

Ding: To speak with tiresome reiteration.
Hoon: A derogatory term used to refer to a younger person who engages in loutish, anti-social behaviour.

» Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:49 am

Its a case of being in the right place at the right time. I guess you could say mantled, but I think that term is overly used and unnecessary. There may not even be a word for it in yoku.

I'm being nit-picky because I'm curious. Plus Lady N. didn't say anything about mantling in her description, and it was a complete description.

i suppose mantling is the correct term. However, i usually use mantling to refer to someone who is acting in the role of a specific person (say Akatosh or Sheogorath). The HoonDing is a concept, not a person, and i dont think you can really "mantle" a concept. it would be like becoming Kindness or Murphy's Law or something. There was also not one single HoonDing for anyone to mantle.