Dagoth Ur was a dead dreamer, who just wanted to make a giant disease golemn to take over the world and turn it into his vision. Mankar did have a whole philosophical and religious reason, if one were to take the time and read the commentaries and pay attention to what he said, instead of the knee-jerk reaction of thinking he's a crazy cultist. Unlike Dagoth, he wanted Mundus to end, with Mehrunes as the liberator to fulfill his birthright. He, espcially the mer of Summerset, want Mundus removed, so that they could be free once again, and live in the Dawn. You see, mer world view sees Mundus as a prison. To the altmer, and MC, destroying it is the only way to go back to the Dawn. The dwemer decided to turn their entire people into a giant, time warping robot.

What is a Kalpa anywho? Also That was a good read indeed.

Random: Your OFP avatar amuses me.

Well hey, you can oversimplify morrowind as well like you did oblivion and fallout: Dagoth Ur was a racist who wanted all the immigrants gone.

Dragon-Cliff racer war?? Could have sold tickets to that fight.

Alduin is going to eat the world.He is hungry.There can't possibly be a better reason.


This is sarcasm.I also demand a better story than "holy paladin vs evil demon" a la Oblivion

Jack 254, yet again you nag about things you don't really know. As others have said, there is lore, and FO3 was way deeper than you say. Yet you are right about Morrowind being deeper than Oblivion, but that doesn't make the plot in Oblivion shallow and lore less.

Still, that is pretty much the reason this time. There is the reason that apparently kalpas need to end, but we do not know the reason why Alduin must end them.

Hell, in Redguard myth, the second serpent made the world to make eating that much easier.

Yeah, whatever.

Why does there always have to be an epic reason behind the bad guys acting the way they do? At the end of all things, maybe Alduin isn't out to destroy the world after all. Maybe he's just trying to breed the next line of rulers by manifesting himself as an enemy that only a true leader can defeat. We don't know yet and Bethesda's sure as hell not gonna reveal it, because it'd be a pretty huge spoiler.

I guess that's what I miss in games, those major plot twists and surprises.

The enclaves didn't really want to purify the water for you anyways and I think it was a great quest line fighting those bastard enclaves.

Oblivion had a pretty good background sotry imo...

But yeah alduin cannot simply say "I'm a dragon god, hired to kill you. roar.. derp." However, as a god he could simply say that he is bored and wants to eat the world. :shrug:

You mean like placing the game into a grey area? I like the idea, but i also want a clearly defined bad guy that harms me personaly.



********Fallout 3, and Mass Effect 1 spoilers*****




Fallout3 , i never had any ill-will against the Enclave, and actually found Eden to be a pretty nice "guy" if you negate his "kill all mutation hard line" policy. It was only Colonel Autumn i had any real desire to kill, as he harmed me personaly by killing the Father and indexing project Purity. Likewise in Mass effect, the Reaper ship was the big bad guy, but i never felt any personal reason to stop it apart from the "I'm going to kill everyone!" thing. Serian is who i wanted to confront, Serain wronged Shepherd badly and framed her- nearly getting Shepard killed and sabotaging the black captain ( i forget his name o.O)
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I want a bad guy who wrongs me so i feel emotionally compelled to see him dead, not a cliché 'evil doer' vs 'super Hero' setup. Give me a character for a good while, who is very likeable and then have him/her get killed or wronged by the bad guy and give me the reason to want to kill the bad guy.

While you're simplifying a lot I agree with you on the point that bethesdas storywriting has really gone downhill.

Nothing will beat Sephiroth, though, so why bother to even try

I'd also like to add:

#6- A small boy from Britain with a weird scar on his head learns that he's the Chosen One who must destroy an evil litch. In the meantime, he attends a magical school and plays the school's magical sport. Oh, and he's an orphan b/c his parents were blasted by said evil litch.

#7- A small girl falls down a hole and has a weird dream of talking bunnies, walking animated playing cards, and a queen who wants to cut off heads for no apparent reason.

Now for videogames:

#8- An unknown ship commander must gather allies all over the galaxy to stop an invasion of Earth from evil killer spaceships.

#9- A kid in tights and a green dress and a funny green hat has to save the world from a pig demon. He's guided by fairies, talking boats, talking hats, ghosts, and nvde imps from the netherworld.

#10- A fat, stereotypically-Italian plumber must save a princess from a freakish turtle demon.

#11- A young man/woman must save the world from an evil guy with mask, an evil tower, and evil dark shadows all while guided by a blind girl.

Now for TV shows

#12- Some kooky, goofball dude in a blue box goes back in time and beats up monsters. He's 900+ years old, yet only takes young adolescent girls as his companions, falling in love with some of them.

#13- A cartoon series about a talking sponge.

Well when it comes down to it Skyrim has been engulfed in a civil war (factions looking to take over the throne) which will you choose

I like the frog :frog:

The bad guys had prefect reasons to fight in OB. For the Mythic Dawn it was racism, and Dagon it was the fact that destroying things is his job. If you didn't get those reasons your probably weren't paying attention to what was going on. I do agree about what you said about Fallout. In Skyrim the dragons want to reclaim there home land, very good reason. Although I'm almost certain they'll somehow have human minions, but what there reason for fighting would I don't know. They'll probably be worshipers of Alduin.

The Joker is probably one of the best villains in comic book history and his only motivation is wanting to see the world burn.

I agree with you on the OB thing, but I think Fallout 3 villian had a perfectly good reason for their actions. They are sorta government forces, it only makes sense for them to try and get control over the one thing that can actually restore life to certain areas.

Heath Ledgers joker is the best! He and Hannibal Lecter.

I feel a need to correct you, as others have said it easy to make things sound simple but I can just easily make your examples sound as deep as they really are.

Oblivion: An ancient demon who knows only how to destroy things tricks a collection of extremists into believing that Nirn belongs to him, they take this to mean that he will leave them alive and grant them immortality if they help him reclaim it. This group of extremists than set out to kill the only thing left that can stop this from happening (they believe), with only two people knowing they have killed the emperor, to begin with you need to help sort everything out.

Fallout 3: In this situation I wanted to join the villains because they were much better written than the good guys, anyway, a group of people with ties to a old world government plan to rebuild a nation to its former glory, to do this they need to make the world safe for its inhabitants again. So they set about eradicating all of the mutants but quickly find out they don't have enough power to do so, when they discover project purity they are given a chance to destroy all the mutants and control the water supply thereby forcing people to seek permission from the Enclave to access water and putting them in a position of power. They didn't want to purify the water they wanted to control it.

Anyway rant over, just next time you want to say somebodies writing talent has gone down actually think about how good it still is.

People do things for good reasons, that how I like to see it. Nobody except a psychopath wakes up and says, "Today I shall be evil". No, they wake up and say, "The way things works isn't right," so for the greater good (their own or even societies) they decide to change things.

That's what I'd like games to portray more often. Not evil for the sake of evil, but rather people doing what they do for reason that seem good to them but in the final result become bad or lose their way into being worse then before. And, yes that can even apply to things that SEEM senseless. A flu-virus does kill 40 million people for no reason it does that to propagate itself with the only tools it has due to a biological imperative. The same I suppose could go for a dragon, god or not a dragon will propagate to meet its own ends.

The key is to EXPLAIN to the player that something more then what they see is happening, to reveal the internal logic of an event if such logic may be beyond peoples' grasp to intuitively understand. Laying it all out too clearly is bad, but in some cases any story can be made clear without beating people over the head.

I don't think you're giving enough credit to Mehrunes Dagon or Mankar Camoran, they were into some pretty gnarly [censored].

Syberia 1 & 2 comes to mind... And The Longest Journey.

Other than those two, Morrowind all the way, baby.

Why should they? Why should you care if they have noble intentions? In the end you still have to kick their sorry ass to death. How do you know that Camoran didn't have the most noble of intentions going into his deal with merunes dagon? You kill him before anything can really become of his paradise

I really think a lot of people are remembering Morrowind fondly because it was such a great game at the time. I loved the story when I first played it, but I was very young. I have recently replayed it and I have to say the story, as whole, is a little less impressive. It and Oblivion both suffer from the fact that in order to fully enjoy the story, you have to read the lore. I doubt very many players do this; I think as they stand without reading into the lore and only going what you learn via dialogue both stories are rather lackluster in comparison to some other RPGs. Now, compared to the video game narrative history as a whole, I think they are near the top.