while I found New Vegas.. entertaining.. I didn't find it as good as Fallout 3...

and one major different was the map.. first of all it was just sad to see the map decreased that much.. half the map in New Vegas can't be explored... its just there to make it look bigger..

anyways my major issue with Vegas.. was the fact it never felt like a real waste.. a big world.. cause every corner you turned you would be at a new cave and a new quest.. it started feeling like an arcade game to me.

thats what Oblivion did so well.. you felt that you were in this huge world.. cause it wasn't all so compact..

I'm writing this because I saw an interview in which Todd said you were making it more like New Vegas when it comes to the map..

I hope not all the way.. just the feeling of exploring the waste.. exploring tamriel.. that was gone in Vegas.. completely

Did we play the same version of Oblivion? Because as I remember it, you couldn't take ten steps out of one ruin or cave without running into another one.

compared to fallout new vegas.. oblivion is an endless world..

trust me... and now that the skyrim map is so much smaller than Oblivion.. I fear it will be even more thrown together..

whats up with that by the way?...

Oblivion > fallout 3 > new vegas > skyrim .... in map size?

Skyrim map is roughly the same size as Oblivions and there are less dungeons, so no.

I think we just disagree. New Vegas feels more open to me. I feel like I can travel further without hitting another ruin or cave than I ever could in Oblivion. I am annoyed by how much territory I can't access in the game (or couldn't before I removed all the invisible walls), but that's a different matter.

And the Skyrim make isn't "so much smaller." They've stated it's about the same size, plus has more verticality to it, plus has fewer dungeons.

^ and the terrain is more rugged, meaning that it will actually feel bigger (and probably also is bigger if you flatten the worlds and compare them in km2) (edit: to be understood in relation to post by daylahung)

you base this on .. what? .. have they said it has less dungeons and the same size? in numbers?

cause on the map it isn't..

http://www.atout-geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Map-Elder-Scrolls-V.jpg


yeah yeah.. they said New Vegas would be the same Size of Fallout 3 aswell.. its barely 2/3

that "almost the same size" can apperently mean a lot of things...

^ you do know that the producers of NV isn't the same people who created Fallout and Oblivion right?

At the same time, Morrowind and Oblivion had almost the exact same cell size when Oblivion covered all of Cyrodill and Morrowind only covered Vvardenfell.

Mao being to scale is not a guarantee

I see you fail to grasp the concept of scaling.

no I know that you can't just look at the map..

but they said it wouldn't be as big as oblivion.. but almost..
thats exactly what they said about new vegas about fallout 3.. and new vegas ended up being a shivering isle...

1. New Vegas was made my Obsidian. Bethesda didn't make the map, Obsidian did, and Obsidian has had much much less experience making open world games than Bethesda, which is why the sandbox was so awful and boring. If you're concerned about Skyrim being like New Vegas, don't be, because the last game Bethesda developed was Fallout 3.

2.: Yes, Bethesda has said Skyrim's map is "compatible in size to Oblivion", and while they themselves haven't (to my knowledge) given us an exact number of dungeons, a number of magazine have said around 120.

'
and you fail to grasp the concept of history... you're all too high on the skyrim trailer and too defensive about the game..

Morrowind > oblivion > fallout 3 > new vegas... thats how its look so far.. in map size..

why should that change? they already covered their asses by saying it would be smaller than oblivion..


and to XXantibodyXX... bethesda was supervising that process.. Obisidian used Bethesda's tools.. they based the game on the fallout 3 experience.. its not like Bethesda
can completely wipe their hands clean regarding that game.... besides.. Todd Howard was the one so hugely promoting new vegas before it came.. not much of what he said turned out to be true.

From what I have hear, Skyrim is about the same size as Oblivion's Cyrodiil. So plus or minus. And correct me if I'm wrong, but BGS did not design the New Vegas map.

They said roughly the same size and fewer dungeons. That sounds like it won't be cramped or smaller. If they do pull a F/NV when it comes to the map I have a feeling that they will have to patch that since it will be an amazing amount of complains.
I don't think I have too say this, but I do it anyway: Bethesda, PLEASE dont add any invisible walls like New Vegas did, it really did affect the gameplay in a negative way.
Edit: Umbra (#14) is right, it was Obsidian that made New Vegas. Lets just hope Bethesda don't make the same mistake.

Huh? "Vardenfell, the explorable part of Morrowind in the third game has 10 square miles (25.9 square kilometers).[2][3] The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has approximately 16 square miles (41.4 square kilometers) to explore."



Also, Skyrim is supposed to be as big as Oblivion.

Tey haven't said it will be smaller than Oblivion, they said it will be "comparable in size," which means that even IF it's smaller, it wont be drastically smaller.



Yes they can wipe their hands clean, as far as developing the map is concerned. Obsidian is another studio on the other side of the country, and they developed that map by themselves. The only thing Bethesda did was tell them what they couldn't add to it.

History? If Tamriell was at full scale, we would have a life sized continent.

And are we talking about Actual sizes, or the size it feels? Because we all know that Morrowind felt bigger than Oblivion, yet Oblivion was actually the largest in land mass.

under the supervision of bethesda and todd howard ... its so easy not to blame Fallout New Vegas on bethesda.. because obisidian made it... but they made it by contract.. bethesda had to greenlight everything.. I even remember Todd Howard saying in an English podcast interview that he was the one saying yes and no to stuff..

and too many times regarding skyrim have I heard him say "as in New Vegas"

how the hell do you spin it as me saying "history" is the same thing as me wanting a full scale game!?!?..

I thought you were talking about Lore, sorry.

So you're telling me you think Obsidian called up Bethesda and asked them where to put each and every building in the wasteland? Not everything had to be approved by Bethesda.

And where on earth are you getting all these vast sources of information for Skyrim in which Todd compares it to New Vegas? Todd has had barely any interviews since the announcement. He had a podcast, and he had the OXM interview, and that's about it. "Too many times" is a gross exaggeration and damn near a lie.

Bethesda didn't make NV. It's faults therefore don't apply to TES.

So, P3nnyw1se, the basis of your argument is "they're liers?"

I ask because we have info from them that says one thing, but you seem quite sure that they'll do something else.

Yeah, I found that curius too. I would like to know where he found that info, and why he think it will be cramped with fewer dungeons.