Hopefully splash damage wont Lean on to the PC and throw in "some effort" into console gaming (i went there)

Just throwing in these two right there:
Haupauge HD-PVR & Blackmagic Intensity


We wanted a theatre-mode for much longer than this.


I love the killcam for this reason. If you're playing SMART (hurr durr) though, it won't.

The whole Killcam thing I don't agree with... That kind of stuff should stay in COD. But as for stats go I would like to see some KDR, your total kills/deaths most kills in a row. Team objective completions things like that (amount of times healed/revived player) A shooter without stats like K/D is not really a shooter..... no offence

K/D belongs in shooters focused around killing - like a Team Deathmatch game. In games where working as a team and completing objectives is the whole aspect of the game (which can include deliberately sacrificing yourself to help the team) K/D not only server little to no point, but can be detrimental to the gameplay.

What he said! But with extra turtles :turtle: :turtle: :turtle:

MAG is an objective based game which has the most focus i've ever seen when it comes to Gameplay as a team.... K/D has no effect on that type of gameplay (which also counts for Brink) and I think that your perception of adding something like that and the effects it might have in a game is not really justified... People who like to play as a team will do this indefinitely whether or not KD stats exist, MAG is a living proof of that.
Brink is a shooter, sure it might have high hopes to define the future of online gameplay and team work based objectives. But having a stat system is something that is not only a must but a general necessity for any online game. I play shooters all the time, while I must admit I love my KDR I also just enjoy playing the game and helping out the team. Socom was also a good example of team play and was one of the 1st games that made you feel like part of a team. COD just ruined that for the general public and tainted the way we look at shooters. I'm not saying Brink should follow in the footsteps of MAG or Socom I'm just saying that a shooter with no kill stats is like a Car without wheels.... Also Shooters by nature are competitive and quite frankly if your not competing don't participate in a race.....

Forgive me if I'm wrongly speculating something here but that's just my opinion and everyone here is entitled to his/her opinion.....

Let me ask you one question: Why should a shooter that's entirely focused on Objectives have KDR stats. Yes it's a shooter, but that's not a valid argument. It's like saying that every RTS should have mineral gathering and army combat like starcraft. What about RTS like the total war series f.e.

Also, in real life (because people like to compare with it) you don't count how many enemies you have killed, no it's all about completing your objective.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be stats, just not kill, deaths and KDR.

Well there are some snipers who keep track of their kills... but you didn't hear me say that. :ninja: I don't want to have to rant about snipers again.

Objective and class based FPS games that keep stats such as KDR are plagued by problems. They usually have a huge lack of medics, since being a medic tends to kill your KDR; no one wants to be the guy actually completling the objective, since theres a high chance of you dying with no chance to kill anyone; theres a huge lack of teamwork because killing is all that matters to half the players; clans and groups determine "skill" by looking at KDR even though it has nothing to do with objective based skill; et cetera, et cetera.

In a nutshell, stats make players focus on the wrong thing - individual achievements, rather than teamwork. One of the main goals of Brink is to allow even bad players to experience what it feels like to be part of a team where everyone is part of a well oiled machine. To further that goal, they removed stats, and bribe people with XP to help out their team and work together.

Shadowcat, I have to admit that you've outdone yourself. I couldn't have explained it better.

agreed couldnt say it better.

on killcam, i hav mixed feelings about it. i think it has its place for certain games such as cod but not in brink. simply bc brink is a tactic team base shooter so campin can be forgiven. in a tdm type game, its suppose to be frantic and fun, not campin which is annoying as hell and kill cam is great for counterin it (silent snipers svck in cod)

Not necessarily. There are stats that describe team play effort so they are very valid in Brink I think, you cant just dismiss all stats saying they are for ppl who dont care about team. Individial achievements/stats as you say could also be those to do with teamplay and helping the team.

And I like to know how am I doing with each weapon or which map suits me more or which enemy or weapon kills me more, not for any bragging or anything, just like to know the information. You cant really brag with it

I have to mention again the game Alien Swarm where you have to agree, it is heavily based on teamplay and yet it has interesting stats which we in a team like to check from time to time just for our amusemant. Same goes for L4D2, teamplay game with nice stats. Dont get fixated on K/D stat, there is much much more.. In Alien Swarm it says from all health I ve dropped for ppl to use, I ve used 25% on myself, the rest to heal others, so thats an individual stat yet has a lot to do with teamplay. Also I do most friendly fire with a minigun, so that helps me to decide what gear to get for certain missions. You get the idea.

Its not about stats, its about how ppl use them. If someone wants to brag, he/she has a small brain and I can easily ignore it. Everyone is better in different things, thats where team play comes in.

So lets hope Bring will need proper teamplay to succeed, unlike COD where you can be one man army, more like TF2 or L4D where you NEED others

P.S. no killcams pls, whats the point of playing stealthy when ppl can see where I am/was etc, would much prefer record feature where I could watch the match later

There should (and will) be no counters of any specific stuff in BRINK. Those counters just always make a vast majority of people run after the wrong goals.

Even if you put in a "Most objectives completed"-counter, this will cause more trouble as if you left it out, because some will only try to ninja the objective everytime they can. Even if that means to sit near it and waiting for the team to clear the area.

yeah right... in real life they do count, Snipers mark their kills on their weapons and most troops also count their kills... ever checked out wiki leaks ??;)
anyway I'm not going to go into a debate whether or not it people count their kills in real life, if you haven't realised it yet I play video games for fun and having stats for my game is something i'd look forward to...
I'm not saying this game should entirely be based on KDR and kills quite frankly I don't like games that base their gameplay on that *cough* COD *cough*
I'm just saying stats is part of an online experience and has been ever since I started playing online games... This game should have stats such as how many objectives you've completed (maybe even what kind of objective) how many times you've healed/resuscitated an ally, your most used weapon / most played map / hours played / your top 5 medals earned (if that's even in the game) Stuff like that. But as a shooter fan I'd probably like to see Kills / deaths / KDR / most kills in a match / Kill streak... And to go back on your point you can't compare my argument to yours because mineral gathering is a gameplay aspect it's like saying you should have COD airstrikes in Brink it's not the same as having stats... Does Starcraft not have a ranking system ? does an RTS not keep score of win/loss ? don't compare apples with oranges
Stats are stats.. gameplay mechanics are gameplay mechanics

To me removing stats and removing that kind of mechanic within a shooter game is just asking for it 2 fail.... I will repeat my statement by saying that MAG a PS3 exclusive is an objective based game with a whole lot of teamwork aspects (I say this because I know half of you are xbox users and the rest PC users) MAG covers all stats from Kills/deaths KDR to win/loss to Assets repaired / blown it even rewards players for being a support class and people are proud to be that class. You get medals for being a specific class and all around you see a lot of varied classes and builds. So by that statement your arguments are kind of flawed because you say that including something like K/D in a game ruins the teamwork aspect and I must strongly disagree with that since I play MAG quite a bit and teamwork.. imo K/D will not ruin a team based game if it rewards the players in a way (MAG does a really good job at this) And just so you guys know there's still always going to be that guy that just wants 2 kill

Well, despiste what you think, I have the support of the devs on my side, regarding leaving K/D out, so I must have at least a little bit of an idea of what I'm talking about:

"I'm really sensitive to the dangers of introducing things in the game that people can obsess over, to the point of ruining the game for others, and we're very careful to identify and avoid them. For instance, global leaderboards for stuff like k/d ratios and what not: bad idea, since they disccourage players from taking chances and actually doing what's necessary to help. So bam! Not having them. I know other games do, and they're kind of standard, but screw it, not the right thing for Brink."
- Richard Ham

source - http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=204830&postcount=521

And all MAG is living proof of, is what happens in MAG.





W:ET (SD's previous game) didn't have a stat system, neither did RTCW and a plethora of other hit titles. Apparently your "having a stat system is a must and a necessity for online games," philosophy, is a bit flawed.

In the games I mentioned above, they had scoreboards at the end of each round, opposed to leaderboards and stats. The categpries on the scoreboard were things like:

- Best medic, Best soldier, etc
- Best Battle-sense
- Most XP
- Most upgrades
- Most kills
- Most accuracy

And since they were scoreboards only, they reset after every match. I expect Brink to have a similar setup - using similar categories to list top players.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that believes in team stats and objective based stats (the KDR is just a nice extra and I just like having it it's not that I use it to brag but it's a personal goal I like to achieve in any shooter game.. but if it's left it it's also ok)

And yeah about the kill cam I agree... i'd really hate to see that in game, it's something that makes stealth classes useless -_-

yeah and obviously games like that sells millions and can compete with other games that do (COD/Halo)? Games that have these things implemented do waaay better and from research Achievements and stat systems improves sales (I'm not going to give the link because i'd have to look for it but if you reeaaally insist i'll find it) but this is why Xbox has it's achievement system and PS3 has it's trophy system, Steam also has some sort of achievement system.... No offense to the games that SD has made so far but they are not top shelf sellers (to my knowledge) and imo not having a stat system might hurt brink more than help it... with out a competitive edge it's basically a campaign you play trough once or twice and your done with it.. Online gaming to me is a competitive experience and I buy shooters to have that kind of experience, tbh hearing things like what Richard Herm just said just made me want to rethink buying this game.... You can say what you want but that's just how I play video games

So you are comparing the sales for games made for multiple platforms, with PC only games - one of which is a free download (the games I listed) - and then giving me a "hah" at the end, lol - yeah, good argument...


Yeah, on console - kids like things that. PC players are the ones who tend not to care as much, and just play the games they like regardless. Ranked servers is actually one of the things that ruined Quake Wars MP.

lol, They've only made 2 games - Quake Wars and Enemy Territory - and ET was a free download - and they developed both of these games for PC only. But despite this, both games got great reviews, were received well by the community and SD is pretty much hailed as the kings of class-based, team objective games.


Since when did a game need stats to have a competitive edge? Competitive edge comes from gameplay and game design or overall skill of the individual player, not the implementation of a stat system.

So games cannot be competitive without a stat system? News to me. You want to be competitive - join a league.

It's funny because servers used to play on are unranked when ranked and password protection doesn't work together.

Well that gives me a simple answer - I would never play with ppl you talk about and to be honest those ppl will play the same way even if there are no stats, just selfish muppets. So I would rather play with someone else and that is easy to do. So I still dont see the need to get rid of the stats.

So you are comparing the sales for games made for multiple platforms, with PC only games - one of which is a free download (the games I listed) - and then giving me a "hah" at the end, lol - yeah, good argument...
I never knew Halo was a multiplat hmm.. guess I should pick up my PS3 version of Halo reach (PS: good argument )

Yeah, on console - kids like things that. PC players are the ones who tend not to care as much, and just play the games they like regardless. Ranked servers is actually one of the things that ruined Quake Wars MP.
And Pc gamers like to pirate software and hack what's your point ? ranked games has been a part of online gaming ever since i can remember ( maybe not as far back as you old timers playing shooters on the PC and all but close enough)

lol, They've only made 2 games - Quake Wars and Enemy Territory - and ET was a free download - and they developed both of these games for PC only. But despite this, both games got great reviews, were received well by the community and SD is pretty much hailed as the kings of class-based, team objective games.
Yeah I have to give them cred for Quake wars but I still think they are going against their most dreaded fear which is the stat based system that killed their beloved game. imo they should improve on the system and not trash the entire idea


Since when did a game need stats to have a competitive edge? Competitive edge comes from gameplay and game design or overall skill of the individual player, not the implementation of a stat system.

Don't know what game your playing that's competitive and doesn't keep score.. but anyway stats just make competition easier to access such as displaying how well or bad you do and it's also a tool that can help you improve your gameplay (and to me enhances your gameplay experience) mind you this has nothing
to do with kills it can be anything from being a good medic to being a good support class or objective based player.. your basing your opinion on 1 stat while I am trying to explain that it's the whole package of stats
that makes a game competitive and easy to keep score (even if it's just for you alone to see)

So games cannot be competitive without a stat system? News to me. You want to be competitive - join a league.
Mention a few games that are successful and don't keep track of scores... not having stats in a game is a flawed mechanic and you don't have to take my word for it.. and to be honest you can argue with me
all you want but I'm suborn and will stick to the fact that Stats make competitive gameplay accessible and fun
[/quote]

exactly no matter how much you twist and turn it selfish people will still play the same... and taking away the stats just hurts the average user that just wants to play have fun and check out his stats...
Same goes for hackers and cheaters they ruin the game but there is always 1 guy who uses an aimbot or glitches into that one room where he can shoot every1 in the spawn.... SD taking away stats might be a bad move
but Brink is still an awesome game and I hope it does not effect sales, from what i've seen so far it's going to do just fine... It's a new IP so it might take a while to take off... I just hope it's as good as it looks
No stats is kinda a big let down though....

Halo is available for PC, as is Halo 2. Also, Halo was originally scheduled to be an RTS for MAC, and later was designed to be released on PC as a an FPS. The invention of the Xbox and the fact that MS acquired Bungie, is the only thing that brought Halo to consoles. I actually still have the disk that came with my PC gamer, that shows the PC preview for Halo - before xbox was even around, so even though Halo is a big hit console game (on multiple platforms) it was a PC game up until the last minute.


Score isn't stats. Your original argument was about K/D ratio and online stats, which is not what "keeping score" is. "Scoreboards" and "leaderboards" are 2 separate things.


In class-based, team objective games, like Brink, that only stat that matters in determining how good or bad you do, is how many wins and losses you have - and even keeping them on a leaderboard can be detrimental, with people changing teams to preserve stats.


All the stats in the world, are not going to improve anyone's gameplay. Being a good Medic or Soldier, comes from understanding the mechanics of the class, the mechanics of the game and understanding of the genre (team based objective games) all the stats in the world is not going to help a player get better at playing a class, or make them better at the game. It sounds to me, that you are just taking your personal opinions, and applying them as though they are facts or the mindset of everyone.


Elaborate on what you mean by "scores" first.