The Arena in Oblivion was generally unsatisfying. It wasn't terrible, but they could have done so much more with it. Given Skyrim's warrior culture, it wouldn't shock me if they went a little deeper into the Arena. I'm just hoping they can capture that "Tournament" feel, that was sorely lacking in Oblivion. You work your way up from maybe a the best fighter in a small hovel in the middle of nowhere. Displaying your talent, you get picked up by, say, a recruiter from Markarath to fight in their Bloodpit, eventually becoming recognized as the best fighter in Markarth. Then, following the crowds, you travel, entering tournaments held in the various holds of Skyrim, fighting for Honor, gold and of course, wenches. Leading up into the most difficult tournament held in Windhelm.


I'm a little torn on how fights actually happen. Should they be tests of skill, IE only regulation equipment can be used? I personally didn't like the whole "Raiment" thing. I'd rather see actual armors and weapons used as "Regulation", for example, the Tier 1 Arena wouldn't allow anything better than Steel weapons, and whatever Tier 2 armor would be (Chainmail and Steel in Oblivion, Bonemold, Chitin and Steel in Morrowind)

The Arena was my favorite thing in Oblivion. In my mind it represents what i imagine the elder scrolls world to be. I loved the arena but, when it ended i swore i was going to commit suicide if i had to fight another half man half bull carrying a big ironhammer(forgot name its been a while)

You can if you exploit the game correctly. Even on consoles gotta love the gray aegis' 100% magicka resistance.

I know that there was a thread made yesterday, and indeed I posted in it, but I think that the subject on the matter of arenas was too vague as to be defined as any actual all encompassing sort of thread. Here, I would like to list my personal ideas on how the arena system could be vastly improved from the previous games in several different sorts of circuits rather than just generalizing the "arena" format. Remember, these are like the professional sports of the Elder Scrolls world and there's a lot that goes on rather than just two people stepping in and one stepping out. So without further adieu, let's start ourselves out by actually exploring the lengths of the single person circuit.

Enter, Combatant

As brought up in that previous thread, the best place to start would not being able to go right into the arena. In fact, you should have pre-requisites like the houses in Morrowind and have to have a sponsor. These sponsors could come through various means such as existing arena combatants (which I'll get to later), managers of underground arena matches, and general notoriety. The fastest way would be to, of course, head for the underground matches. I would not imagine that people would be risking their lives in these types of fights, so this is where a surrender mechanic could be introduced. Once an opponent reaches low health, they can choose (depending on various things) to either kneel and surrender or fight to the death. People who surrender live to fight on and may even look up to those who beat them.

I would think, since the underground later becomes rather useless, that there could be a set quest line of you traveling to various rings and facing the turmoils one by one until you've become a champion. In between the questline however, there could come the opportunity from various sponsors to bring your game to the next level by headed to actual arenas that are sanctioned by the country. If you see the underground questline to the end, you will most likely get a much better deal from a manager, but if you do it sooner you will get less payment but be able to start fighting exactly how you want since the underground will no doubt have some stipulations as well.

So onwards the brave combatant will head on to the arena, and this is where the meat of the competition comes. You will, depending on your manager's wants, have the opportunity to enter free-for-all or one on one arenas. Free-for-all's have no real structure in terms of tournaments, and they are basically timed matches with cash grabs. How I see it is that the match will have a time limit, say 6 in game hours, and the opponents fight to the last man. Free-for-all's could also have fun challenges like using specific tiers of armor, fighting styles, inability to kill, and so forth.

The real fights, the 1v1's, could be far more complicated. They would be basic arena brawls of fighting to the death, without stipulations. There would be actual ladders and the fights would actually take place instead of simply being assumed. When the tournament starts up, the posted list of fighters is made available in the "lobby" or some sorts of the arena. All the opponents will be randomized in every aspect except their level, which will be equal depending on the rank of the ladder being ascended. And instead of having "integrity" for the ring, you will be allowed to bet on these other matches.

How will you be able to bet on these matches though? What times will they come? Well, this is where things get a little bit trickier. My idea regarding the timing is that the arena will always be open and churning out fights according to your rank in arena or gambling circles (which will come later). Your match will occur on a set date, and you must begin the fight on that set date (it ends once you win, which may be a while depending on your skills) else you will loose notoriety as well as the ability to fight in that tournament. Missing too many matches will have your manager give you the boot or have less people seeing your matches which means even less money.

The timing part is a bit tricky due to NPC behaviors in their fighting, but I imagine there's a theoretical maximum amount of time two same levels NPCs can fight each other, so base the timing around that. In between these sort of things, random events like people trying to sabotage the ring or trying to bribe you or other combatants doing other various things... There's a lot of potential for random events in this, and it could be extremely great to have the arena be more than just the arena.

Basically, these ladders will go on and on until you make it to the Grand Championship. This will be the only time that the opponents are actually set characters, since you will most likely see them about. Of course you will get your offers to make these fights easier, and eventually you take the grand championship. At this point you have the option to fire your manager, though keeping him would allow for some added benefits even if the money itself is deducted from having to pay him. As grand champion, you can choose to fight in 1v1's, 1v2's, 1v3's, and 1v4's and each will net you more money and such. As an addition though, you will periodically have people challenging you for the grand championship. These people will often have rare items you can win as a symbol of their own status. You have the option to request or decline, but declining will net you notoriety and eventually cause the arena's managers to question your championship and eventually remove it entirely. These requests would come at a constant, but slow, rate as to give you time to manage other things.

That's a rather lengthy list, huh? Well, we're not done yet. Let us step into the world of combatants fighting with you.

Enter, Combatants

As before, you can meet these people in the lower rings in basic 2v2 matches. The difference here though is that you can choose to meet these people by flagging them down in actual arenas as well and getting to know them. Perhaps bet on the right man enough times or visit them after many matches and you may eventually have yourself a partner in crime. The more accomplished fighters in the arena are harder to please, but they can get you in the arena as a sponsor. The less fulfilled ones will have to talk with their own managers, which is a hit or miss. One could also do this as a player, though I think that's a bit of a stretch. Do you really want to train up an Adoring Fan?

Regardless of what way you make it in though, you are now going through basically the same motions as with the 1v1 scenarios. The difference here is, of course, the companion. What could be rather interesting in getting you to fully understand your companion though is having a personality for each race and style of fight. Say that I have a Female Argonian Fighter with me. She would give me instructions like "I'll keep them distracted, you get them from the side" or say "They'll be liking this trophy back in the Black Marsh". Talking to them too could have minute backstory, and have them be wiling to share more of the earnings with you. Eventually, you could take them out of the arena as well and have them as a full time companion.

The biggest issue comes with when the companion dies, which is when you could really start to hate the system of the arena (and want to get them back). The arena or your manager seizes all assets of you partner, and your notoriety will go down due to your inability to protect your partner. Maybe even through character the person could have a request to place a certain item somewhere, but you won't be able to fulfill it without breaking some rules...

Maybe though you want to play a pacifist, or perhaps get filthy rich by playing the game from up in the stands. This, my friends, is where the gambling aspect comes in.

"Throw Your Hand In... Combatant?"

The basic principle of simple betting from Oblivion was good. Just being able to pick a team or a specific character, watch (or not watch) a match, and pick up double your money is good to just have if you don't want to get into complex things. If you do though, then let us introduce the gambling circles. There will be four tables at the rings: 1v1 matches, 2v2 matches, Free-For-Alls, and full tournaments. Different arenas will have tables where you can bet higher amounts and, in turn, win more.

The first three I listed are rather simple sorts, but tournaments are a fair different in how they work. You must bet at the beginning of a tournament on a team or a single combatant with a certain amount or higher depending on the table you're at. If your combatant outlasts the other people's bets, you may collect right then. If, though, your pick makes it to the top then you double all your winnings. If he loses however, you loose any chance to withdraw money for that particular tournament.

If you win a certain amount of money (doesn't matter how much you've lost), you will get the chance to start the actual gambling questline. These options will be rather nefarious sorts of schemes for sabotaging matches in order to gain money for yourself and a guild dedicated to this sort of thing. You can, of course, choose to rat them out but going through the questline eventually sends you after the deposits of the arena itself instead of just the combatants. You can even choose to completely eliminate the arena, which could be a major source of income for a town and thus have it go bankrupt. :woot:

Of course, there are also other ways to do away with the current arena's staff. Through enough notoriety, for example, you could have offers to start managing and eventually to the top of the arena society and be able to collect your debts with a bit of management to keep notoriety continually strong. If you are lazy and nefarious though, those people who were rigging fights give you the ability to set up the deaths of some of the arena's top people and have a systematic takeover of the system. From that, you don't have to do any work, but will receive a lower income overall.

These are just a few of the ideas I have regarding the expanse of the arena system. I definitely think with Radiant Story that this is all a possibility, and it could add much needed variety to the series' only true tradition. I do hope you enjoyed it all and, if I am unsatisfied with the arenas, then I will do my best to try and replicate this system through modding if possible. Just a head's up

merging two arena threads...

I suppose that was for the best with space and all that. I merely assumed because mine went into actual detail of the actual system that it constituted its own thread, but I shall not complain.

Another idea I had was that advancing in rank within the arena ranks would depend on various things. It could depend on tournaments for some of them, but others would depend on other factors. Say, to advance in rank, you have to win x many fights against level x opponents. Maybe even pleasing the crowd could be put in nicely to gaining stature. Something like winning a certain amount of gold by wooing the crowd with your skills. I'll probably detail this later, but that's the basic idea.

Agreed.

but if you lose you die so you can't regain it you just have to reload a save..cuz your dead

It would be nice to see greater politics in the Arena quest. Fighting on behalf of Breton seperatists might further their cause, or fighting in the name of a civil war faction might give them a political boost. I can see the Arena having an effect on the main quest, if it were treated as political publicity stunts.

The main thing I want is a bigger arena, since it is separated from the world via loading this shouldn't be too difficult.

Hoping we can fight mammoths as well.

If you lost the title, you'd be dead...?

I think mammoths would be best for a hunter quest line, perhaps killing for trophies and what not this is something I hope Bethesda include and not just, I can see Mammoth meat for 120gp.lol

Anyway about the arena, I hated the arena in Oblivion although a quest line I found really fun and great to play it was just the interlinks of the quests, it seemed rushed and pretty much ended up me going back and forth.. However I found the Gray Prince quest line to be fun, perhaps they should add some radiant story quests or short quests to break up the sections between the fights.

Also big crowds would be awesome, perhaps the more grand the city the bigger the crowds, for instance a rebel camp only about 7 rebels would be standing around and be more primitive in shape, whereas in big cities it would be looked upon as major sport and therefore more crowds and what not, big crowds would be simple as well have a hybrid of both normal npcs and as the stadium gets higher and the smaller the spectators become then just make them sprites, perhaps even have a lower poly version spectators so in terms of LOD it goes..

Normal NPC | Lower Poly NPC | Sprite

Shouldn't be a mammoth of a task, but in fairness big crowds is more of a cosmetic touch and isn't really enhancing the game, but I for one would love to see almost Spartacus style arena fights.

Heh, that was "The Gray Aegis", a Steel Shield with 100% Resist Magic on it. There's actually an exploit involving the Skull of Corruption to get it.

i dont know why skyrim would bother with something so trivial in times like this... alduin coming to destroy the world and everything.

not to mention, you're the dovahkiin... wouldnt that make the arena/pits kind of... one-sided?

FUS RO DAH!

i win!

Try to repeat this when you are silenced

Anyway it would be great if Arena had historical events as scenarios
Like Siege of Kvatch
Grand champion in role of the Hero of Kvatch other gladiators as Kvatch guards (3 or 4)
Hero of Kvatch can use whatever he/she wants
Guards must wear guard uniforms and wield iron/steel weapons and shields (also no magic or shouts)

In role of Daedra- painted wildlife, summoned creatures and prisoners/slaves in ceremonial daedric armor.
So wave after wave of "Daedra" until battle is won (or you are dead)

Unless you are Grand Champion your role is limited to Kvatch guard

So basically replaying various historical events as one inspiration of scenarious

Of course other match scenarios also are welcomed (like team fights, 1v1, unfair fights and similar)

I would like to see a "thumbs up, thumbs down" system integrated into arena combat so your character has the option to spare your opponents. Different types of arena battles would be nice, too, maybe something like:

Team battles: 4x4, 8x8, 12x12, etc.

Survival/endurance battles: More and more creatures released into arena over time.

Naval/water: maybe longboat based?

Dynamic arena area: different barrier/wall/traps setups for different matches

Contests: archery target matches, boxing, etc. (less lethal martial sports)

Races: footraces and mounted. (Dare I hope for chariots?

Was there an arena in Morrowind?

In Vivec, but no fighting actually took place there.

I agree a better arena would be nice, of the RPGs I've played my favorite arena is still the arena in the first Fable, (ducks at incoming flaming) it may be an older RPG and most people have a love/hate relationship with Peter Molyneux but it is still my favorite arena experience.

Im pretty sure you could fight Trebonius there... and some other guy I forgot about.

But if you're talking about an arena system similar to Oblivion's, where you can fight other combatants and rank up, the answer is indeed no.

What ide like to see in an arena isnt nessisarily varied opponents, but arenas. Think of it, you could have rocks and obstacles to trick your opponent, or flames? maybe if we get multiple arenas we might see this. Another thing that bugged me about OB was the fact that you couldnt compete during the night, with the new lighting system think about exchanging spells with different lights reflecting off things, or like i mentioned before flames? might look pretty cool.

an arena where you can grind after you complete its quest

The CS makes me think that the arena was going to be so much more. In every city, there's a cell with the word "Arena" in it (so like CheydinhalArena), despite the fact no arena exists in any of these cities. Also, looking at the actual arena in the CS shows unused doors, placed markers for the "Royals", AI packages for these royals to come watch the show, different booths etc. It could have, and sounds like it was going to be, so much more.

The Arena was one of my favourite parts of Oblivion. It's definitely something i want to see again... just even bigger and better. And why stick to gladiator combat? Why not Jousting, fist fights, archery contests or perhaps even a fictional team sport unique to The Elder Scrolls, like Quiditch in the Harry Potter series.

I also want to meet my opponents off the pitch... and before i fight or play against them. That really makes the whole thing more enjoyable and interesting i think. I played Jade Empire recently where they did this. I never understood why we didn't meet the blue team gladiator after beating the grey prince. He was the only one who was ever nice to you... and the only one who didn't like you when you finaly became champion. It would have been a very interesting match because of that.

This would be nice, especially if you have a non-lethal way of defeating your opponents and then a finishing move like in Gothic 2.