I've got a horrible framerate in the Imperial City Waterfront... tdt declares 10 FPS. The gameplay is simply choppy. The rest of the Imperial City is fine, along with the surrounding land. I've hit up Bravil, and while the framerate dips down to 10-15 in spots, it's still playable. I've COC'd to and wandered around Anvil and Leyawiin, without issue. There's spots on the Anvil docks that dip down, and one in Bravil, but they're not prominent enough to bother me... not like the Waterfront. The FPS dip is bad all over the Waterfront docks... from the entry from the WF tunnel, around the lighthouse, on the docks, around the player shack.

My mods:

Oblivion.esmJog_X_Mod.esmAll Natural Base.esmFrancesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esmFrancesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esmCobl Main.esmOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esmMart's Monster Mod.esmVASE - core.esmTamrielTravellers.esmFCOM_Convergence.esmArmamentarium.esmArtifacts.esmBetter Cities Resources.esmProgress.esmHorseCombatMaster.esmUnofficial Oblivion Patch.espDLCShiveringIsles.espBetter Cities .espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Leveled Guards.espFCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.espAll Natural - Real Lights.espAll Natural.espAll Natural - SI.espMIS.espMIS New Sounds Optional Part.espStorms & Sound.espWindowLightingSystem.espAyleid Loot EXtension.espClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.espkuerteeSittableRocks.espQ - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.espRAEVWD New Sheoth.espEnhanced Economy.espFF_Real_Thirst.espDuke Patricks - Friendship Ring For Companion Detection.espThieves Arsenal.espXiaNewAmuletsV1.espRoberts Armamentium female.espCobl Glue.espCobl Si.espFF_Real_Thirst, Cobl.espOOO 1.32-Cobl.espBob's Armory Oblivion.espFCOM_BobsArmory.espLoth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.espOblivion WarCry EV.espFCOM_WarCry.espOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.espArmamentariumArtifacts.espFCOM_Convergence.espFCOM_RealSwords.espFCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.espMart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.espMart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.espMart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.espMart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.espMart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.espMart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.espMart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.espMart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.espTamrielTravellers4OOO.espTamrielTravellersItemsCobl.espShiveringIsleTravellers.espRustyItems for OOO.espIvellon.espArtifacts.espDuke Patricks - Bottle Shoot Archery Practice.espJolardHome.espthievery.espthievery - EE patch.espVaultsofCyrodiil.espVaultsofCyrodiilBC.espza_bankmod.espRTT.espBlood&Mud.espBlood&Mud - EE patch.espThe Mystery of the Dulan cult.espMart's Monster Mod - City Defences.espFCOM_Blood&Mud.espFCOM_DulanCult.espxuldarkforest.espxulStendarrValley.espxulTheHeath.espXulEntiusGorge.espxulFallenleafEverglade.espxulColovianHighlands_EV.espxulChorrolHinterland.espxulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.espxulBravilBarrowfields.espxulLushWoodlands.espxulAncientYews.espxulAncientRedwoods.espxulCloudtopMountains.espxulArriusCreek.espxulPatch_AY_AC.espxulRollingHills_EV.espxulPantherRiver.espxulRiverEthe.espxulBrenaRiverRavine.espxulImperialIsle.espxulBlackwoodForest.espxulCheydinhalFalls.espxulAspenWood.espxulSkingradOutskirts.espHarvest [Flora].espDecoratorAssistant with OBSE v1.1.espDropLitTorchOBSE.espDungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.espExterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.espkuerteeInventoryIsABackpack.espPersuasionOverhaul.espRealisticFatigue.espRealSleepExtended.espSupremeMagicka.espSM_ShiveringIsles.espSM_EnchantStaff.espSyc_AtHomeAlchemy.espDeadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.espDeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.espDuke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.espDuke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.espDuke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.espnGCD.espnGCD Oghma Infinium.espProgressGSD.espProgressMBSP.espProgressSBSP.espProgressRacial.espProgressArmorer.espProgressMercantile.espLet There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.espCobl Races.espbgBalancingEVCore.espbgMagicEV.espbgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.espbgMagicBonus.espbgMagicEVPaperChase.espbgMagicAlchemy.espbgBalancingOptionalLessHealth.espbgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, Vanilla.espbgBalancingOptionalNoRaceDisp.espbgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.espbgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.espBetter Cities - Full City Defences.espBetter Cities Full - B&M Edition.espBetter Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.espBetter Cities - Thievery.espBetter Cities - VWD of the IC.espBetter Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.espBetter Imperial City.espBetter Imperial City FPS Patch.espBetter Cities - COBL.espbgMagicEVShader.espbgMagicLightningbolt.espGet Wet.espReal Hunger, Cobl.espCobl Silent Equip Misc.espBashed Patch, 0.espDuke Patricks - Combat Archery.espDuke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer.espStreamline 3.1.esp

I've merged the mergeable modes using Wrye Bash... PYFFIed what I could, if I remember right when I installed each mod. The following mods are deactivated and not merged into the bashed patch... I just haven't bothered to uninstall the appropriate OMOD, remove the esp, and reinstall it:

Clocks of Cyrodiil.espOOO-DLT_Remover.espSalmo the Baker, COBL.esp

My system spec's:
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=41316
4 GB RAM
http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgrgtx260mc896ocxe.aspx
Vista 64 bit

I'm going to guess that the culprit is probably Better Cities. I'd add in the FPS patches for the Imperial City, but I notice that there isn't a specific one for the Waterfront. I'm loathe to reduce the detail in the rest of the city, since that's running fine... it's just the Waterfront that's driving me crazy.

I've changed the in-game video options, noting that dropping the view distance to below 75% helps smooth the chop and bring the FPS to as high as 14. I've dropped my antialiasing back to 2x and anisotropic filtering to 4x, without much of a help. HDR's enabled. Bloom should be disabled (I'll double check that). Turning off the AI scripting (via tai) doesn't help.

System-wise, I've been tempted to pick up an extra 4 GB of RAM, then a secondary hard drive, using it specifically for dedicated swap space (page file) and extra data storage. That ought to help, but I'd love a softer solution that doesn't hit my wallet now.

Any suggestions? Feel free to pick apart my mod list, too... even call me an idiot. I've been called worse, and I'd appreciate a second opinion.

That sounds pretty normal with BC...Are you using texture replacers? Have you already used PyFFI?

In my experience The Waterfront is the worst area in the game in a heavily modded game where BC is one of the mods.
If you use QTP3, uninstall it and check the difference. In my previous game that shaved off 200-300 MB of VRAM in that area.
Also, try uninstalling Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp and see if that helps.

Even using ImeREAL cities waterfront can slow that area down.

Region Rumare adds to the stress too (though I didn't see that mod).

For my own load order I made my own ImpeREAL cities district merger without the waterfront and I think you can do the same with BC (or you could last time I looked). Though I'm not sure if BC has internal quests that require it.

The Waterfront is bad all around, even without BC installed. It's extremely demanding. I've never been able to figure out why that is either because far denser areas exist that don't cause problems.

Well, I'm glad to see someone else has been here before me... and that the brick wall I've been slamming my head against is, in fact, a brick wall (as opposed to something I can just walk around...)


I've played around with QTP3R in the past, but on the current installation, I decided to leave it alone... mainly since BC impressed me much more than the redone textures. I've seen the VRAM hit around 500 MB with just BC, so I decided not to leave QTP3R out. When I started the current installation, I planned on PyFFI'ing every mod that applied, sticking to the "known safe" mesh directories. That doesn't mean that I didn't miss a mod, but...



I'll try taking Diverse WaterLife out... I liked having the extra fish types around, but half of them end of flopping around on dry land anyway. That's a bit of an immersion killer right there. If it helps the framerate, it'll stay gone :wave:.


No ImeREAL or Region Rumare mods installed, though they sound like they duplicate BC's goal, so I wouldn't be surprised if the issue carried over. BC has an omod version available (or somebody wrote up OBMM scripts for it, can't remember which) that allows a modular installation. I'll check.



I do remember the Waterfront taxing my old system (Core 2 Duo e6300 w/ 3 GB RAM, Geforce 9600). That makes me wonder if there isn't something stock that's exacerbating the issue... some area specific script that's hogging the CPU, some object with an insane mesh... I have noticed pathing issues there, too (characters continuously walking into corners or walls of buildings). Maybe that's got something to do with it. However, it seems to me that if it was something obvious like that, somebody else would've noticed & fixed it already.

I wonder if it's got something to do with it being an "internal" city area with no clearly defined exit to the wilderness? So Oblivion loads up the surrounding wilderness in addition to the immediate Waterfront area, bogging the system down. The rest of the city has a clearly defined entrance/exit system, preventing direct access to the wilderness. That makes me wonder how much of chore it would be to slap a wall around the WF and make it its own area...

Actually not completely true as BC has portions of ImpeREAL in it.

What I mean is using Gecko to merge the individual districts from BC sans the waterfront. Best to ask Vorians in the BC thread though.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1068317-a-guide-to-merging-with-tesivgecko-second-thread/.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/898653-a-guide-to-merging-with-tesivgecko/.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084965-how-do-i-merge-mods/.

I must be one of the lucky ones. I don't get bad FPS drops there.

What kind of rig are you running? I still find that area playable, but...BC Anvil is pretty bad too. I have not played in a long time, so I cannot remember the exact kind of FPS I get there. I treat it the FPS range there as "in city" FPS.

if you have characters walking into walls it probably means you're using the old version of Diverse Waterlife. getting rid of it WILL solve the issue, although if you check the MMM thread there's a link to a fixed version so you can try that one out and see if you can keep the fishies around with no issues

Adding an extra 4gb of RAM will likely have zero benefit for Oblivion. The game is too old, it's a 32-bit process. If you've tweaked the EXE to use additional RAM, it still won't get as far as using all available RAM (though if you have all visual effects from Vista enabled and a number of background tasks running, I suppose there might be some benefit from more RAM).

The Waterfront, as has been said, is a real resource hog, FPS drops around the area even without mods, so of course using mods which edit the area will make it worse. The cities and all other IC Districts are in their own worldspaces separate from the rest of the world, as you've more or less recognised, so yes, because the Waterfront is NOT in its own worldspace, this does mean that more wilderness data is being loaded than normal for cities and IC Districts.

BC contains the entirety of ImpeREAL City Waterfront, plus Nernie's Waterfront mod, but nothing from Region Revive: Lake Rumare is included.

Have you tried removing "Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp" and running TES4LODGen again (assuming you used TES4LODGen to begin with - if you didn't, that ESP is useless anyway). The VWD for IC ESP makes the entire Imperial City (including all building meshes not normally visible unless flying over the city or looking down from one of the hills circling the IC) - and this will impact on FPS. So removing this ESP might well help.

Do look into PyFFI'ing all vanilla meshes (extract from BSA, PyFFI, repackage into BSA) plus meshes from other mods (avoiding any mesh with an EGM file beside it). No need to PyFFI the BC meshes, they've all been done already.

E8500 Core 2 duo 3.16Ghz
Nvidia 9800 GTX+ 512MB
2.8GB RAM(DDR2)

Keep in mind, I'm only talking about the IC waterfront ^^;. I don't run BC, and I haven't been to Anvil yet since getting this rig.

Oh, not running BC... I have the same CPU and an HD4870 1GB. I cannot recall the waterfront posing a problem without BC either, but I can't remember the last time I ran through that place without it.

I have an old low end system and the waterfront district brings my computer to her knees. Poor thing, I HATE going down there. I can't even imagine adding anything to it. :blink: She'd blow up I think. Hubby's system gets around a consistent 60 FPS but about 30 in that area. Still very playable for him.

I thought more RAM might be a help, since I've seen my hard drive activity light flashing a bit in the WFD. I assumed it might be accessing a swap file, so more RAM might help. I've "tweaked" the Oblivion executable to allow it access to more memory. I'm tempted to slap a third drive in the system and use it for swap space... it's been something I've planned on doing regardless of Oblivion's behavior.

I just ran up a clean save... I'll remove the MMM Diverse Waterlife esp first... then the VWD of the IC. I did use TES4LODGen when all was said and done installing and organizing the mods, so that might help.

As for the PyFFI'd vanilla meshes... I did extract the BSA and PyFFI'd the meshes. However, I just slapped them into an OMOD and installed them that way. From what I understand, Oblivion should pull thoses meshes before using the ones in the BSA, correct?




My old system wasn't a fan of the Waterfront District, especially during that Thieves' Guild quest where Lex shows on up with his cronies.

My new system handled the stock WFD fine. Toss in BC, and it went back to a crawl.

Yes, as long as you've dealt with Archive Invalidation, the game will read the loose meshes instead of the BSAs. However it is tidier to put them back in the BSAs (uncompressed). But then again having said that, it's probably kinder on memory management to entirely extract all BSAs and not use them at all (don't do this).

Faster hard drives might help, a RAID 0 configuration might also help (or might not make a difference). Moving the paging file/swap file to a different drive from the game installation and Windows installation might help. More RAM is still unlikely to help Oblivion, but can't hurt. Ensuring the BSAs are all uncompressed instead of compressed might help (or might not make a difference). Placing the BSAs on different hard drives might help (use the INI to tell the game where they are).

You use Streamline, have you set it up correctly? Are you using the Oblivion Stutter Remover OBSE plugin? Did you install the mod which replaces the LOD land meshes with optimised versions (possibly overridden by the UL ones of course, but that can't be avoided)?

More RAM will only help Oblivion if you're on a 64 bit system using the LAA patch. Any 32 bit system will be capped at 2GB of memory usage for any user app (including games) regardless of how much your system actually has.

With LAA, the cap goes to 4GB on a 32 bit app. With the right configuration you'll definitely see benefit, especially if using the Oblivion Stutter Remover.

Is that still 5/1024? I'm using Win7 x64 with 4GB, that config, LAA patch, and Streamline set up to (hopefully) match well with OSR... Also with Better Cities (etc.) - so, this is kind of relevant.

Exactly--was going to point out just how bad that area is without BC, myself. Along with Weye (again, even without mods), it seems to slow things to a crawl. Both are good places to test out mods designed to improve FPS.

While this isn't really a very pleasant suggestion to make, lower resolutions, and a lack of anti-aliasing should help. Of course, you may not like the visual result, but they'll speed things up everywhere, everything else being equal.

I think I've got it nailed down... played with Streamline a bit, and I've got the Waterfront District's framerate so it's comfortable. Time will tell.

Interesting... In what ways did you change its settings, if you don't mind telling?

Arthmoor correct me if I am wrong but more ram on a x32 bit system can help if you take an extra step. You have to do 2 below aswell as patch the exe.

1. As noted you have to patch the exe with a specific game LAA patcher (or use CFF explorer to set the >2gb flag in the exe header if you know how to use the tool - CFF Explorer can be used on all games)
http://www.ntcore.com/exsuite.php - When installed, make a backup of your game exe file just in case, open file, select game.exe, under NT Headers click on File Header, in the window on the right find Characteristics, Click here, Check 'App can handle >2gb address space'. Then go to file save.

2. You also have to enable PAE support in the windows boot options (various methods - but easily set with EasyBCD in advanced settings)
http://neosmart.net/forums/showthread.php?t=642 (Be careful with this utility, I have it installed for dual booting linux primarily)

If you dont fancy using/installing EasyBCD heres the microsoft knowledge base link on the subject http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929580
"To enable PAE mode, you have to add PAE to the boot entry in the BCD file. Open an elevated command prompt. Type BCDEDIT /SET PAE ForceEnable."

Helps my win 7 x32 bit laptop to utilize more of its 4gb, along with Streamline and OSR combination.

That does not sound safe because of the 4GB limit, letting applications use more than 2GB on a 32-bit OS...

Its working fine for the games I have installed, used with Vista before and now with 7 x32bit. No in-explicable crashes or system problems. The system still takes enough of a chunk of the extra memory to utilise, I have not done any in depth research apart from process memory usage, oblivion typically will now take between 2.5-2.8 gb ram plus graphics card ram for usage, the rest ticks over with windows threads in the background quite nicely.

There has been quite a lot of experimenting with this over on the X3 Terran Conflict boards, another system resource hungry game, at one point egosoft enabled the LAA flag but it caused problems for some users depending on their setup. So they revoked it on the next patch... However for most people with more up to date systems the revoke was detrimental, and so using the above method for x32 bit systems has been adopted and by all accounts very succesfully. Certainly works fine for me.

Edit: Not sure if it would be okay on windows XP, my old XP desktop only has 2gb ram so never tested, and I do know that since the evolution of Vista windows internal memory management has improved in leaps and bounds - Use at own risk on XP.

Tomlong could you please edit and include the microsoft knowledge base link in case people only read your quote.

Edit2: Step 2 in my post above also works very nicely for heavy apps like GIMP, which in the latest incarnation (v2.6.8) has the >2gb flag set by default (no need to hit it with CFF explorer), just needs the PAE support enabled at boot to utilise it for x32 bit OS.

Oh yes forgot to add - For anyone not wanting to use the complicated CFF explorer to change >2gb flag on exe's ... also on the NTCore site is a small utility designed to do just that job
http://www.ntcore.com/4gb_patch.php

This also automatically makes a backup of the exe in case it all goes pete tong.

Edit: For reference - Laptop Core 2 Duo (T7300 merom at 2ghz), NVidia Geforce 8600m (256mb onboard ram), 4gb DDR2 ram, PCI Express motherboard, 180 gb SATA II HD - So really not the most cutting edge of machines but getting a nice fps range between 25-35 and no stutter, last CTD I had (Edit: that was not related to mod conflicts) was about six months ago, silly mistake.