So I'm experiencing two weird horse related bugs and thought I'd post to see if anyone else had seen these.

The first one is the invisible legionnaire/soldier. The horse will be standing there ? alive but just standing there. No soldier in sight. If I move in and out of the cell or combat erupts - then the soldier may appear out of nowhere and just be on the horse as normal. This was reported with a tamriel traveler in that thread, but I've never had it with a traveler. I always get it with an imperial soldier on horse. It happens most often when I fast travel into a cell where there are horseman likely to be. Not often but it does happen. If I try and steal the horse or punch the horse the soldier appears.

Next bug -which is far more specific- There is an imperial soldier in the cell where Fort Usarek is at. He is permanently collided with his horse and apparently paralyzed except for his ability to turn his head. They are both on their side and the horse looks corpsed ? but he sometimes tries to trot-in place-twitching. I don't think he is though because my cursor shows him alive and when I click on him the soldier engages in conversation as normal ? moving only parts of his torso and head ? it looks eerie.

I use the Ulrim's horses and Mounted combat and my current load order is as follows:

Oblivion.esmScreenEffects.esmFrancesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esmFrancesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esmMD_Saddle_Master.esmJog_X_Mod.esmEnhancedWeather.esmCobl Main.esmItem interchange.esmQarls_Harvest.esmUlrim's Horses.esmOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esmMart's Monster Mod.esmEnhanced Daedric Invasion.esmTamrielTravellers.esmFCOM_Convergence.esmArmamentarium.esmKvatch Rebuilt.esmCyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esmProgress.esmYou Are Here.esmUnofficial Oblivion Patch.espUOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.espOblivion Citadel Door Fix.espDLCShiveringIsles.espUnofficial Shivering Isles Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - SI.espOblivion.espFrancesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI-only.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Leveled Guards.espFCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.espFran Armor Add-on.espFran_Lv30Item_Maltz.espNatural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.espEnhanced Water v2.0 ND.espMIS.espMIS New Sounds Optional Part.espAtmospheric Oblivion.espOBSE-Storms & Sound SI.espEnhancedWeather.espEnhancedWeather - SI.espAliveWaters.esp300_Lore Dialogue.espaaaBorsBedrolls.espElytramount.espP1DmenuEscape.espP1DanywhereSittable.espQarls_Harvest.espBook Jackets Oblivion - SSBFL.espLiving Economy - SI.espLiving Economy - Items.espCutthroat Merchants.espChoices and Consequences.espC&C - The Blackwood Company.espMap Markers Be Done -Elys-.espLandmarks, w Wells.espHotkeyCasting.espLem - Hotkey Cyclers.espImproved Hotkeys.espDLCHorseArmor.espDLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.espDLCOrrery.espDLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.espDLCVileLair.espDLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.espDLCMehrunesRazor.espDLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.espDLCSpellTomes.espDLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.espSlof's Horses Base.espMounted_Steering.espMounted_Spellcasting.espMounted_Trampling.espDude Wheres My Horse.espMD Saddlebags v3.0.espHRMHorseCommands.espDLCThievesDen.espDLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.espDLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.espSM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.espKDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.espExnemRuneskulls.espSlof's Oblivion Robe Trader.espCobl Glue.espCobl Si.espBob's Armory Oblivion.espFCOM_BobsArmory.espLoth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.espOblivion WarCry EV.espFCOM_WarCry.espOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.espOOO-No_Guild_Ownership.espGeomancy & Gem Dust OOO.espOOO 1.32-Cobl.espChoices and Consequences - OOO.espArmamentariumArtifacts.espFCOM_Convergence.espChoices and Consequences - MMM.espFCOM_RealSwords.espFCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.espMart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.espMart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.espMart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.espMart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.espMart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.espTamrielTravellers4OOO.espTamrielTravellersItemsCobl.espShiveringIsleTravellers.espTIE In.espTIE In - FCOM Convergence.espTIE In - Game Settings OOO.espPersuasionOverhaul.espC&C - The Blackwood Company - OOO.espWearable GS and DS armor for OOO CG.espCastle Ravenpride.espIvellon.espOldCrowInn.espThe Ayleid Steps.espTheElderCouncil.espTheElderCouncil_TempleOfTheOne.espthievery.espDLCFrostcrag.espDLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.espDLCBattlehornCastle.espDLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.espSM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.espKnights.espKnights - Unofficial Patch.espKnights Patch.espThe Lost Spires.espBlood&Mud.espLost Paladins of the Divines.espOrigin of the Mages Guild.espTheNecromancer.espMannimarcoComplete.espMannimarcoRevisited.espMannimarcoRevisitedOOO.espFCOM_Blood&Mud.espFCOM_OMG.espOrigin of the Mages Guild OOO Patch.espEnhanced Daedric Invasion.espKvatch Rebuilt.espKvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.espNPC new clothes V2.6.espMedium_FPSFIX_Natural_Vegetation.espHarvest [Flora].espHarvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp300_Test.espAmbientDungeons.espDungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.espP1DKeychain for COBL.espUlrim's Horses.espEnhanced Quest Roleplaying.espQuest Award Leveller.espRoleplaying Dialogues.espbgBalancingEVCore.espMidasSpells.espMidas OscuroGems.espMidasSpellTomes.espFrostcragMidasLab.espSupremeMagicka.espSM_ShiveringIsles.espSM_EnchantStaff.espbgMagicEV.espbgMagicBonus.espbgMagicEVPaperChase.espSpellbooks.espAlchemical Formulas.espSyc_AtHomeAlchemy_No_Bounty_v2.espattack and hide medium v2.1.espStealthOverhaul.espDD_ProximitySneakPenalty.espNo psychic guards v1.2.espRenGuardOverhaul.espRenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.espProgressGSD.espRealisticLeveling.espLegendary Abilities-Reflect MOJ.espGrandmaster of Alchemy.espbgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.espBashed Patch, 0.espReal Injury.espDuke Patricks Sickness Alarm.espDuke Patrick's Health Alarm.espDuke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrow Shots Alert The Target.espDuke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.espDuke Patricks - NPC MAGIC and Arrows Can Miss Now.espDuke Patricks - Stat Based Bob And Weave.espDuke Patricks - All NPC Or Just Vampires Now Bob And Weave.espDuke Patricks - Momentum Damage And Jump Risk.espDuke Patricks - SCA Shield Tricks.espDuke Patricks - Running Backwards RISK.espDuke Patricks - Basic Combat Geometry.espDuke Patricks - Custom Melee Weapons Made Compatible.espDuke Patricks - SCA Melee Combat with NO RECOIL.espDuke Patricks - SCA Combat Archery.espDuke Patricks - Basic Exhaustion Plus Encumbrance And Sleep.espDuke Patricks - Custom Bows And Arrows Made Compatible.espDuke Patricks - Smash of the Titans.espDuke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer.esp

This is a weird one because it is not every soldier. His name is Fenton (probably randomly wrye generated) and his FormID is 0018ba9a and his horses FormID is 0018ba9b they are both placed vanilla FormIDs with no other mod (that I can see with tes4view) editing them. If I attack him he is paralyzed but appears to get upset and combat music starts. I just tested several different spawns and he is always laid out with his horse (kinda zoo). I can always find him laying in the road between Fort Usarek and Cheydinhal.

Screenshots:
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/zSSHorseCollide.jpg
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/zSSCollidedHorse.jpg

I've tried uninstalling all horse mods and rebashing the patch - so it does not seem to be a direct effect of Ulrim's horses, Slof, Mounted Combat, or anything that is directly horse related. It is something else.

Anyone got any ideas (other than stripping away my entire load order and rebuilding one by one - again).

thanks in advance for any help.

I've experienced occasional invisible mounted soldiers in game but it has never been so... personal.
maybe you offended the guy, he died and now is haunting you...? Jus' kidin'... will take better knowledge of the game than I can provide to explain something like that.
Why don't ask Corepc in the Tamriel Travellers' tread? He knows horses. And FCOM. And stuff. Could help... maybe?

The invisible horse rider has been reported in Tamriel Travelers already and Core seemed satisfied that it was not his mod.

It seems (hear me out) that when you post on a thread regarding aproblem like this the mod maker(s) often then will only examine it from the lens of how it is or is not their mod. ...so... here I am, because I don't know what is causing this. It is not everywhere or other riders of horses that end up collided in ...um, compromising positions - but it is always that rider.

thanks

[edit] clarification:

-maybe I wasn't clear- the invisible thing could be any mounted soldier (so far) and most often encountered when I fast travel (to say Weye or aleswell). The collided soldier is a completely different bug and is always that one guy. He is always collided but not always int he same place - depends on where he spawns - and whether or not I fast travel to where he is - could just as easily walk up on him from another cell.

Have you tried "resurrecting" him or his horse seperately?
I don't think such things can easily be solved by adding/removing mods once they're in your save game already, ... only if you happen to deactivate exactly the mod that added this NPC, then he should be gone. Don't know why he always spawns stuck inside his horse though, but removing one of both out of this "unnatural symbiosis" might at least fix it temporarily, maybe even once and for all.

So try using the console, select one of both and type "resurrect" (or was it "resurrect 1"?). You could also try to solve it temporarily disabling one of them until the other one moved away... or if I remember correctly reenabling will anyways spawn them "nearby" instead of at exactly the same place. So use the console to select the horse, type "disable", don't click anywhere else, don't unselect it or it will be lost for good, close the console, wait for the soldier hopefully standing up now that he isn't stuck anymore, and then open the console again and type "enable", close it and hope for the horse reappearing nearby, hopefully not stuck anymore either.

Well so I went to the road to Cheydinhal to find Fenton and - for once- he was on his horse proper (standing up), but his horse was frozen in place and not moving much and levitating a foot of the ground (no screen shot). Fenton interacted with me as a guard would - but did not move - the horse was frozen - but it's eyes blinked.

So to see if he would spring into action if assaulted I threw a fire bolt at him and that caused he and the horse to become collided and fall down and go boom. Then he is like all the other times I've found him. Perhaps he was that way because he was already attacked before I found him.

I think it is the horse - will try resurrrection next time I see his lazy ass.

Still confused.

And yes I know that disabling mods is a method to finding out - but when you have over 200 - it is tedius.

anyone else?

and thanks.

I've had the same problem before, with the living trooper mounted on a seemingly "dead" horse, who talks to me normally with his face planted into the dirt. It's kind of funny...but wrong! It seems like the horse is dead, but the trooper is "stuck" on its back. I never actually tried to solve this problem myself, since it's a pretty minor annoyance.

I wonder if the horse was actually dead and in the "Jesus pose" when you saw it standing upright, then fell back to its normal "dead" pose after being hit by your fireball. If so it's pretty sad. The poor guy doesn't want to accept that his brave steed is dead

~the continuing saga of Roadsman Fenton the imperial soldier who is very attached to his horse~

Ok so came upon this soldier again today (always the same guy - always on the road to Cheydinhal). And the horse was on it's side and he was mounted on the horse - but sideways. Goblins approached and he got off the horse and killed the goblins then got back on his horse -laying on his side. Very weird. the Horse was very alive and blinking it's eyes and trying to move it's feet.

ResurrectActor console command had no effect.

Psymon, I have seen the trot in place happen quite frequently with MMM Legion on Horseback, with just MMM loaded byitself..

but this usually happen with on cell load for me.. Does not happen all the time, have not seen the other issue yet that you have reported and other's.

So perhaps the issue itself is related to MMM..I will try and see if there is anything wrong with Imperial Legion Horses Also..I have an idea of what could be causing this but I need to look into further..

Try using on the spawn rate reducer also (either MMM or Fcom version) , to see if that helps..

Psymon, How many hours are you into the game with this character, lvl, etc..?

Thanks Core - I appreciate any help.

With this character - I've been playing him while building up this load order (and still tweaking it). So he is lvl 3 - but I use Realistic Leveling with Progress to slow it to like x7 slower. Day 109, 35 hours of play.

The trot in place is always when the horse is on its side.

If they are collided and the guard cannot get up then he will try to swing his sword from this prone position. If he is not collided then he dismounts his horse and will kill me quick.

I've seen him on top of the horse and the horse is standing upright but knd of frozen in place and then he gets attacked (by a boar or goblin) and the horse has a weird freakout havok thing where the torso and hips of the horse twist up like in the ,ovine altered states and then they are usually collided - and paralyzed into place. I think it is the horse that is the problem because when the guard is not collided he will mount and dismount the horse - but the horse will remain laid out and immoble most of the time. Only sometimes does the horse try to trot.

Always the same guy though - haven't found another one.

Then also his FormID starts with 00 - doesn't that make him a vanilla FormID?

I will try to experiment with Reduced Rates (using FCOM) but that will have to wait after I playtest more with Duke's Fatigue mod and then the Real Lights/Darker Dungeons/Ambient Dungeons load order. And after I eat.

He is not going anywhere anway.

Thanks for the help

Well this is a bump - but I promise a funny bump.

Core PC - if you read this - I already have spawn rates reduced.

so the continuing story of the roadsman and his horse - it is a very intimate story to say the least: http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/zSSHorse2.jpg

Another bump and report on weird happenings with Roadsman Fenton.

I just got done clearing out Fort Usarek and upon leaving the fort I see Roadsman Fenton on his horse near the intersection. Two other imperial soldiers bump into him and he falls down like this: http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/zSSHorseCollide2.jpg again merged with the horse and seemingly paralyzed. I then take my booty to the trader's chair (no weapon trader there only a mage, so just dropping it off until one shows) - as I approach I receive a ring (sure didn't recognize it frm any mod) and a bounty (wait all I killed were goblins and marauders in the Fort and my fame is 5 times higher than my infamy). So I stop and talk to Fenton he tells me to stop or face consequences. I figure that he is paralyzed and by saying no I could test how paralyzed. Well his body seemed frozen to the ground, but an invisible version of him got up and killed me - not invisible like a spell -m he was just not being graphically represented - because his body was still pinned to the floor. he chased me about 30 feet from his horse. Weird.

Another weird thing was that at that time a bandit wondered up and picked a fight with the mage trader and the trader - I swear zipped across the screen and killed the bandit from long distance - even though the blood spray and stain were left near me. More strangeness.

So Core PC as I stated I already use FCOM reduced Spawns.

These anomalies only seem to happen around Roadsman Fenton and not with other roadsmen or imperial soldiers. Perhaps it is some legacy in skelaton nifs that are left behind from an older mod - or some mod conflicting with them, but again after looking him up in T4V (newest version) there appears to be nothing touching him.

[edit spelling]

So an interesting development in this weirdest of bugs.

In summary through the past several months with this save/character I've never figured out why Roadman Fenton is always pinned to the ground and collided with his horse. I've come to ignore him and just think of it as a weirdness in the game. No horse mod seems responsible and so short of diabling all mods and restarting them one by one - which is a lot of work and really not the way I want ot spend with Oblivion - in short I don't know why he is cursed to this fate.

So while testing LOD with BC I was up in the air (~tcl) and looked down to see a fight between raiders and roadsmen. Fenton was pinned to the ground (as usual and the Raiders cut through the other two guards with ease. From my perch (landed on column and turned off ~tlc) I saw them then start in on Fenton and killed him.

I then killed them (they had no missiles) and went to my imperial shack and slept for a cell respawn - thinking that Fenton and his horse would then be swept away with the dead by the game engine. On returning Fenton was gone, but his horse remained. AND the curse has now spread to another roadsman and her steed: http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/Horseproblemcontagious.jpg this issue is contagious and could take down all the soldier and horses.

But what does this mean? It has always been previously that only Fenton was floored like this yet now when he dies it spreads to other roadsmen on horse back - as if there must always be one that is smitten this way.

You might try checking the paralysis actor value on the horse.

So how do I check paralysis actor value on the horse?

I look the horse up in tes4edit (and the rider) and it is all vanilla no mods seem to influence except horse armor is given by DLC then altered by Ulrim.

Without those mods the rider is just on the horse no armor and still paralyzed.

anyway - is checking for paralysis a console command?

thanks

hey psymon.
a confession: i only scanned through this thread very briefly.
i have encountered this problem, however.
unfortunately, i don't know the fix.

my initial thought was it had something to do with the horse not having enough fatigue.
because: i've experienced a different but possibly related bug:
the horse i was riding would collapse due to low fatigue (we had just come out of a fracas).
this is not the bug.

THIS is the bug:
at 2 instances (2 only), my player had an out-of-body experience.

i can see him on the ground. because the horse dropped him - but i couldn't control him directly.
i (out-of-body) can still move around.
it was as if the body of my player was a totally different actor.

it wasn't like typing TFC in the console, because i was affected by the physics engine: i collide with walls, i can't fly.
but it WAS like TFC because any action i do, the body would mimic: take sword out, look left, look right.
except, of course, that the body is on the ground.

i wasn't able to reproduce this bug.
but i have a feeling that it occured when the horse collapsed and either:
1. the camera is switched from 1st-person to 3rd-person view (or vice versa) OR
2. i was in the process of getting off or on the horse (i.e. Player.GetSitting == 11, 12 or 14)

i tried different ways to get it going again to video-capture it.
but i couldn't.
also, it would have been a nice trick if i can trigger the out-of-body effect via a script.

You make it sound so neato

I've never experienced that one - it has never happened to my character directly - it is always this rider, this horse. Well now it has spread to an OOO rider and horse.

Actually there is one weird phenomenon - when attacked some times an invisible version of the rider will dismount and fight - you can't see them and the body of the rider is still collided with the horse. Also there is a space around the horse near the back where you cannot approach - as if there is something there. Even more rarely the rider does dismount get up and fight - but never the horse.

I can talk to the riders they will have conversations with me. If I attack them they will tell me to stop, but can't get back up. If I then click on them again they return to conversation with me as if nothing happened - even if I hurt them badly.

So I think it is more than a mesh problem. Perhaps I will get tired enough of this that I disable the mods one at a time till I find it. That can be so tedious though.

it was definitely impressive when it happened to me. i immediately tried to think of ways to take advantage of the bug. but sadly, i couldn't reproduce it.

also, i have a feeling it has something to do with Realistic Fatigue. because, as you know, i have a very restrictive mod-list.
and i can't think of any other mod that would affect the horse that way.
also, i found while working on my Horse speed equals player speed mod that the mounting/dismouting animation produces bugs when they are interrupted (e.g. when hit) when playing with a large number of mods.
(i.e. the bugs didn't present themselves when only a few mods were active. i tested this a lot during that mod's development.)

hopefully, abo, sees this thread.
a suggestion is to ONLY play the trip/stagger while fatigued when GetSitting == 0, 3, or 13 on npcs or if a horse, on the rider.

To clarify this happens even without a fatigue mod installed.

In fact currently I even took out all the Duke Patrick mods (mostly for updates, to BAIN them, and to finish the PyFFI project). So there is no fatigue effects or scripts other than vanilla.

ahhh...excellent.

the horse and rider may have already been affected by a fatigue mod prior to it being disabled?
i have definitely found horse and rider on the ground like you described.
but i've never seen them when they actually fell.
oh, and also, i've not experienced the invisible rider bug - but that sounds like what i experienced except that it was on my player.
by the way, while the player was having his out-of-body experience, i (being the player's invisible self) could interact with doors and other npcs.

i tried resurrecting (even if the horse was alive) and fixing (ModAV2) the horse's fatigue. they didn't help.

it may not be caused directly by any mod. but the trigger may have been set-off by one.
i know that the bug i encountered was definitely when my horse played the collapse due to low fatigue animation sequence.

I'm not so sure because when I let the rider, Fenton, die and then hid away and slept off a cell respawn - I had no fatigue mod installed.

So when I returned to that scene to find Fenton's horse still there and alive (it was dead) PLUS another rider stricken with the malady - there was no fatigue mod installed.

I don't think it was a fatigue mod as this other rider was stricken after the fatigue mod was long deactivated. And she certainly was riding around prior to my doing a cell respawn.

it is the damndest thing

So ... anyone know how I can check paralysis actor value on the horse as per Skyranger's suggestion? Is that a console command? anyone?

oh, hehehe. sorry.
you can try these in the console.
just make sure you have an actor (either horse or rider) selected.
i.e.: in the console, click on an actor. their name and reference should display at the top of the screen.
GetRestrained
GetUnconscious
force ai with SetActorAI 1 or SetActorAI 0
force new package with EvaluatePackage

Alright more to report then ...

Using GetRestrained & GetUnconscious
I got a message saying the NPC nor the horse was neither - so nothing.

Using Evaluae package I get readouts like this:
getDistance >> 0.00
GetDistance >> 53.65
Picked package travel ()

I tried the SetActorAI 1 & 0 and both were unrecognized commands.

I've been experimenting with Mental Elfs Horse Sanity mod which gives you a horse feed bucket when you get off your horse. On this one save I have (which I suspect is corrupted and won't keep) I mounted the lame horse and am now permanently tied to it. I'd leave my imperial shack and there would be the bucket?? I click on it (usually that calls the steed) and an invisible horse appears - if I mount it then I am immediately transported to where the horse is near fort Usarek (no loading screens) in the world space and sink down as if collision is off. I sink into the brown abyss and can only look around not move. I see the outlines of fort usarek and sink until they are gone. Once I seemed to sink all the way through and was transported near the imperial shack with the bucket again. I clicked on it and the horse appeared and collapsed immediately.

So bizarre. Tomorrow I create a new character and look for this horse - maybe it is a corruption in the saves.

Turn on debugging and player stats at the console, and click on the actor in question;

tdt
sdt 9

This will show you all the actor's stats and states... check fatigue... I've seen other reports of horses reporting fatigue like -675/600. I have no idea whats causing this... RF will boost a horse's base fatigue from 50 to ~450, but it should never make a horse's fatigue negative. I suspect some sort of wounding or diversification mod is applying modAV changes to horses that are leaking and/or of ridiculous magnitudes.

While appreciated ABO - this is the old thread - there is a newer one somewhere.

That was May 09 I posted that. Two new games since then no sign of that bug since.

After many months an as of yet unresolved issue in my game has reappeared.

Roadmans Fenton - always paralyzed to the ground with his horse.

In review - this roadsman (formID: 0018BA9A ... BaseID: 0018BA88) and his horse (formID: 0018BA9B ... BaseID: 0018BA8B) can be found pinned to the ground anywhere along his normal route from fort Usarek to Cheydinhal - often collided with his horse and paralyzed. If attacked an invisible version will often jump up and be invincible and rarely he can get up. The horse is what is apparently paralyzed.

He plagued a game I had a year ago and I always saw him and could never figure out what was the cause. aggh.

Ok I'm a bit more prepared to deal with this issue ... or so I thought.

I used the console commands ABO posted above and found that the http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/FentonHorsestats.jpg. But why? That I don't know.

I used http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29127 on him (a mod that lists in console all the mods that are directly affecting an NPC while in game that can later be viewed via Conscribe). The first few rounds of reading him with this mod resulted in my very full load order affecting him all sorts of ways (mostly tokens). Slowly I disabled many of those mods to reduce down to basically one mod (OOO) as the likely Culprit.

Here is the ConScribe Log:

 Imperial Legion Soldier 0018BA9AImperial Legion Soldier Imperial Legion Soldier h:428/238 m:132/132 f:290/290 skills: 683inventory:0: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Greaves: 00028AE1 x 11: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Gauntlets: 00028AE0 x 12: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Cuirass: 00028ADF x 13: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Boots: 00028ADE x 14: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Shield: 000352D3 x 15: Oblivion.esm: Mutton: 00033686 x 46: Oblivion.esm: Torch: 0002CF9F x 17: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Helmet: 00028AE2 x 18: Oblivion.esm: Silver Longsword: 0002521F x 19: Oblivion.esm: Gold Coin: 0000000F x 510: Oblivion.esm: Huntsman Leather Pants: 00000857 x 111: Oblivion.esm: Flax Tunic: 0002C0FA x 112: Oblivion.esm: Rough Leather Shoes: 000229A8 x 1spells:0: Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm: Lesser HP Boost2: 05019BC41: Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm: Lesser HP Boost4: 05019BC8active effects:0: Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm: Lesser HP Boost4: 05019BC8 code 1.16237e+009 magnitude 1301: Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm: Lesser HP Boost2: 05019BC4 code 1.16237e+009 magnitude 60factions:0: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Legion: 0018B117: 01: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Legion Outside Faction: 000C4A00: 02: Oblivion.esm: Friend of the Imperial Legion: 000BE545: 03: Oblivion.esm: Cheydinhal Citizens: 000034BA: 0 

and his horse:

Imperial Legion Horse 0018BA9BImperial Legion Horse Imperial Legion Horse h:400/400 m:50/50 f:-1279/400 skills: 165inventory:spells:active effects:factions:0: Oblivion.esm: Imperial Legion: 0018B117: 0

I highlighted the active effects from OOO on the roadsman. They only seem to serve to boost health ...?? Not the issue anyway as the horses negative fatigue is the problem. And there is nothing shown affecting the horse by loaded mods.

Note that even when the load order is stripped to basic FCOM this persists. Realistic Fatigue is not observable as the cause.

Trying to load the game without OOO and going anywhere near the location of the horse (or in any direction really) resulted in ctds - I guess Only so much you can strip off of an ongoing FCOM game.

So then I looked at the horses Form ID of both into tes4edit and saw nothing effecting either. I load the baseID and see all 4 major overhauls of FCOM affecting the horse.

My thought then is that whatever effected the horse is stored in the save game file - even if it was a mod that was loaded and removed the damage was done. Once it appears it never goes away.
Either that or it is one of the overhauls (likely OOO), but now way to test that really without a brand new game.

Oh well enough of this for now. Mainly posting to take notes on this issue.