skyrim is the greatesr

ok, that is in no way a valid reply. It is the greatest game in the series, at least in my opinion, but it does have it's downsides, just like every other TES game.

Quality over quantity should matter too, but there seems to be this really strange point view over the last five years that as long as you have "lots to do" it doesn't matter how good those things actually are. Give me a compelling narrative. Give me great character development. Give me a game that is actually fun to play. Skyrim is sure pretty to look at, but you won't remember it a few weeks after you stop playing.

Yeah Skyrim is very much focussed on quantity rather than quality imo.

a) Here is 3,000 quests that tell you to kill person x,
b ) Here is 2,000 quests that tell you to find and retrieve item y
c) Here is an infinite amount of Radiant quests that tell you to do a) or b )

TES is really turning into a linear one directional sandbox (with limitations)

Waited so many years for this game and I feel frustrated and dissapointed when I play.

Yeah Skyrim is very much focussed on quantity rather than quality imo.

a) Here is 3,000 quests that tell you to kill person x,
b ) Here is 2,000 quests that tell you to find and retrieve item y
c) Here is an infinite amount of Radiant quests that tell you to do a) or b )

TES is really turning into a linear one directional sandbox (with limitations)

Waited so many years for this game and I feel frustrated and dissapointed when I play.

I take this with a large grain of salt since I've never experienced a TES game that would win rewards for it's writing.

I think you mean narrative. It actually has quite a bit of great writing and lore. It's just too bad that it's all been bound to the books.

Lore=/=writing. And I don't mean narrative.

That's what it sounds like, because the TES games have always failed in that area, while the writing was well above average. Obsidian gets high praise for it's writing, but it's mostly in the dialogue, whereas in TES it has to be searched out.

Play Morrowind.
You're welcome.


:wink_smile:

Skyrim open world
God Of War influenced combat
Diablo'esque loot

Normally I would never reply to any posts of this nature, ever. But I will make an exception this one time.

This is my personal take on the matter:

World of Warcraft is a game on rails, a themepark. You start the game on a track and are issued quests to 'herd' you on the path towards the eventual 'end game' where you are expected to either raid or pvp as a time-sink. Competition and gear is used as a carrot to keep you going. Most players don't even bother reading the quest text. Questing is simply a vehicle placed in the game to make you level up. There is never a time in WoW where you login and are completely free to do whatever you want. This system of gaming is structured, allowing the developers to closely tailor the players experience through game restrictions and level progressive/quest locked gameplay. While the game does afford a degree of freedom to give the illusion of player control, it is in fact just a front to coat the very detailed and controlled leveling/questing treadmill they have in the game. About the only comparison I can think of is a gilded cage.

I am aware of all this, but the comparisons are valid. It comes down to a system that employs scaling vs one that does not. In WOW, they employ a larger game world, each area having its own "level", so it only makes sense to progress through the zones in a predetermined order (although there are choices of which zones you would like to progress through.) Because Skyrim uses scaling (for the most part), there are fewer restrictions where you can go at any point in your development.

That is an important distinction, but the freedom that skyrim gives is an illusion. While you can go anywhere you want in skyrim, you are doing the same kill/gather quests, just with different __fill in the blank__ subjects and destinations. WOW has a richer endgame experience, in that once you reach the level cap, the heroic dungeons and raids are highly tuned to the player's abilities. The opposite seems to be true in Skyrim, the higher level you get, the less challenges there are and most characters end up "overpowered" if they explore/develop enough. Say what you will about WOW, the raids are highly tuned.

Its true that WOW is grind-based and replaces your epic gear with blue/greens in the next expansion, so you have to do the same things over and over. But lets be honest. Playing another character through skyrim isn't any less grindy. Or buying the next TES version of the game you are basically doing the same thing, except with upgraded graphics.

I originally throught Skyrim was vastly superior to WOW, but after 3 weeks, I realize that is not necessarily true. I usually got 2 months from a wow expansion before boredom set in.

Well I feel very similar. After playing for so long there is great ennui, given that as a player you /create/ the most powerful items in the game. Not from rare or hard to find materials, but just from going to a shop and buying some relatively cheap mats.

WOW has a richer endgame experience, in that once you reach the level cap, the heroic dungeons and raids are highly tuned to the player's abilities. The opposite seems to be true in Skyrim, the higher level you get, the less challenges there are and most characters end up "overpowered" if they explore/develop enough. Say what you will about WOW, the raids are highly tuned.

You've given your opinion, and I respect your opinion, especially as it was given objectively and well-stated, unlike 80% of people who have anything negative to say about this game. I would urge you however, to create a new character (after you finish the main quest) and try a completely different brand of gameplay. While yes you can level everything up on one character, focusing from the beginning on a certain style of play will give you a completely different experience from say, leveling your magic skills starting at level 50. If it doesn't appeal to you, hey, at least you gave it a shot.

Comparing an MMO to a single player sandbox game is laughable. Also illusion of freedom pretty much DEFINES the video game experience. Conversely I find MMO's to be pointless grindfests defined by level grinding disguised as immersion and content depth and an end game that if not for elitists would be still be nothing more than a tedious version of playing doll with your in game graphics.

I loved this game two weeks ago. I am playing on expert and am new to the Elder Scrolls series. My character is 1h+shield+heavy+restoration+ smithing.

Exploring the nord ruins outside of Riverwood was a beautiful introduction to the game, especially once I got Eyefinity working. As they say, quantity has a quality all its own, and Skyrim has that. In the first few weeks of play I explored, found treasure maps, watched my character grow in abilities, mined ebony and built legendary ebony gear, killed seven dragons, fought a dragon priest, solved a handful of dungeon combination puzzles, bought a house, encountered all kinds of bandits and thugs on the roads, wild animals, joined the companions, and am about half way (guessing) through the main quest at level 29. I have been doing a bunch of side quests to stretch out the game.

The game has plenty of challenges. Boss fights still require planning and use of all my abilities, and there are still some fights I have had to avoid, resolving to come back later. Difficulty is not the problem. I think the problem is diversity.

The thing is that now that my character has gained most of her primary fighting abilities, and I have visited about a third of the cities, I feel like I have experienced most of the game. Don't get me wrong, there is a ton of material I havent seen or experienced, but things are starting to repeat themselves. Every dragon fight is the same. Every bandit on the road attacks and has a semi-valuable gem and a lockpick in his possession. Most quests have about the same diversity as WOW quests. At first it seemed like there was more, as I am new to the series, but they are basically kill quests, travel quests, and gather quests.

I think it is a great game, but about 70 hours was the most I was able to get from it. I will probably finish the main questline over the next couple weeks when I have time, so figure 90 hours.



These are the things that should be improved to increase play value (for me):

*The fighting mechanic of hitting escape when things get tough and completely stopping action makes it as much of a strategy game as an action game. There is some diversity of action, and positioning is important, but its a pretty simple system. When compared to a game like Witcher 2, it comes up a bit short. Granted that is not the same kind of role playing game (you are Geralt of Rivia), but the whole mechanic of completely stopping time when you hit escape makes it less engaging. They should have done it like witcher, where going into your menu system slows but not stops time.

* Production value. The graphics are pretty good, but there are no cinematics or multimedia to enhance the experience. I'm not expecting something as involved and detailed as the Witcher2, but even WOW managed to integrate cinematic scenes into the main questline. If these exist, and I have not seen them, my apologies, but I think there should be more. The game relies solely on its middling graphics and large scope of its world. The rest lives in the imagination of the player.

*Graphics/Character Animations- These are sortof a let down for PC. They should have used DX11 for their flagship platform. It doesnt compare well to other PC titles in this regard. Its not just the graphics, but the simple character animations. My character has such a limited set of actions. Slash left, slash right, overhand power attack, shield bash, walk, run, sprint, magic ball in hand. Geralt of rivia has different kinds of attacks and movements which kept it visually interesting. Combat is quite abstract. I play solely in 3rd person because the first person graphics are so bad in combat.

*Interface- This is probably a result of being a console port, and probably contributes to the simplistic combat system.

*Scaling- This has been discussed ad-infinitum on the forums. I really like scaling for the most part, but there are problems with it. I got Ghost Blade which is a unique item with stats that scale based on the level you get it. Unique items should not scale. When I bust my butt to complete a hard dungeon, I should get an absolute reward. Because of scaling this feeling is absent from the game. There is not a feeling of accomplishment. I like not knowing how powerful enemies are until you start fighting them, but opponents are scaled to your level, not your abiliities, so when you find yourself demolishing opponents, it is more a reflection of your relative strength for your level and how well you did your professions and gear collection. Anyway, while scaling allows the game world to be more open which is good, progression has a very vague feel to it. I think there need to be more areas of absolute difficulty. Not the entirety of the game, just more fights that you attempt only to realize, "I'm not geared for this". And the world should let you know when you are treading in dangerous waters.

*Ability to Abuse Save without Repercussion- I have over 300 saves. I save because I don't want to re run content that I have already done should I die. The game just doesnt feel dangerous because of this. I wish there was a way to limit saves. I know this is not an MMO, just wish there was some negative repercussion for abusing save and reloading. Perhaps skills that were mid-level would regress if you start abusing save. Don't know how they would implement this, but it would be good.

*Limited voice acting- I think they did everything with five actors. It svcks to hear the same voice over and over in different characters. This really needs to be expanded.



*Crafting Limited- The economy and crafting is not as evolved as a game like WOW. I originally thought there was more diversity, but in Smithing you can keep crafting Iron Daggers, which should not give you skill ups. Alchemy system looks better, but I did not use it.

*Broken Economy- I got to a place where I have more gold than I can spend. I have 20K gold now, and generating gold is very easy. I want for nothing. Perhaps they should make some of the late game objectives contingent upon saving gold. Gold only has meaning at low levels.

*No classes- There is no incentive to replay as another class type because i can just power level any of the skills until I am level 80 or so. Freedom and flexibility is great at first, but none of the game is off limits depending on my "class". For example in WOW, a priest wouldnt have access to Warlock trainers, and there were class specific items and lore. I took a potion and my warrior faked his way into the mage college. Just didn't feel right. Sure it didn't restrict me, but I would be more compelled to play a mage if I hadn't been able to see it with my warrior.


I think Skyrim is a really good game (much better than wow), but there is enough repetition that after 3 weeks I feel like I've seen "everything". Because rewards are scaled, the game has a very vague sense of progression. And while the world is grand in scope and beautiful to behold, the combat system and PC graphics are sub-par for 2011-2012. The combat system has a very legacy, well-worn feel to it. Also, I think an open "sandbox" game needs to have more limits on character progression and be better tuned.


I am sure this will be flamed, but these are my opinions, and why I find myself becoming bored after about 70 hours of play. I think its obvious to most who play it that the game has the tools to be much more than it is with better tuning and more attention to detail.

Almost every concern you list will be fixed by a mod in the coming months. There are over 1000 mods available for Skyrim right now, and they toolset hasn't even been released yet.

And over half of the people playing this game does so on a console where modding does not exist.

This is why Bethesda should not rely on moding to fix glaring issues (bug, quests broken, glaring imbalances, empty storyline, etc, etc). Modding to add stuff on top of a fully functionning game is fine, thats why you guys get the game on your expensive ass machines and I get it on my 150$ Xbox 360. But this is something else: it feels like we were sold an unfinished product.

Its ALWAYS creepy when a random poster searches your other posts and quotes you. You should think twice before doing that to anyone again.