I agree that the east bos took a fat man to the codex but i think elder lyons helping the people of the wasteland show that there human and not some stereotypical baddies but there actual people.And it wasn't just beth being r tards because the put the outcasts in that still follow the codex like like a 12 year old girl with a justin bieber fetish.

What's your reason that the BoS and House should ally then? House is a powerful and headstrong man, nobody tells him what to do, that's the point.

Personally, I think Beth just take the [censored] turn by how they reinforce the BoS. Fallout Tactics almost got it right except for those lore breaking details. And I am not against "White Knight" as such, but I dislike how Lyons Chapter extent themselves to downtown DC instead of keeping Potomac westbank habitable, along with many other idiotic act.

Still, I prefer "The Return of The Paladin" route.

2/3/4. Doesn't matter, you can't convince someone with pretty words when they have a very VERY strong belief that their way is the right way.
Cause if we should then I want to convince the Followers to pick up weapons and fight for Legion at the battle of Hoover Dam.
I want to convince King that he should run Vegas and fight both of the NCR and Legion.
I want to convince Marcus to kill every other super mutant in Jacobstown.
I want to convince Rex to bite his backlegs off.
I want to convince that worker in Sloan to have six with his molerat.
Ridiculous?
I think NOT!
If we're gonna be able to convince House, HOUSE! That he should spare the Brotherhood then I want these options as well.
House is not going to budge no matter what % you in Speech.
There isn't any way to convince him otherwise cause you won't have any argument for this convincing.
Was a long time since I played House so I dunno if there is a dialogue option for this but if there isn't one then I think there should have been one stating "is there no way I can convince you?" or "How about talking to one of their leaders?" or "Can't I just convince them to get out of the Mojave during the battle?"
But he should shoot down every one of these ideas with no exception.

5. Lanius is not some crazed psychopath who won't listen to reason, Idunno what the dialogue line were for it but I think there is a good reason for him to back down through the dialogue line, he's brutal, not stupid.
[edit]

Pacifists never win!
- Paladin Kodiak Out

Yet there are at least a couple of examples of the courier doing exactly that. Naturally, I can't get into them without doing this:





I think at this point it's safe to say that we're all just going to have to agree to disagree, yeah?

(And I've got to say, despite the fact that some are on the slippery slope, if they put any of those options you suggested in the game, I would use any and all that were available -- ESPECIALLY the sloan worker and his molerat because that would be the ultimate demonstration of my control via Speech. And it would just be funny.)

You can only convince them with a good reason, what reason is thier for House to ally with the BoS, especially when he wants the NCR to keep coming to his casinos regardless.

I don t think House should just change his mind on a speech check. He s set in his ways

My problem with it is I already joined the bos so I wasn t going to kill them, and I couldn t even tell House I was not going to do it. No option to tell him NO. No option to tell him the truth while I was killing him. I don t like that, because House treated me with repect and I couldn t treat him with respect and tell him the truth, because the game would not let me.

I ve done good deal of looking at fo lore and canon, and no where in there does it say the bos must remain stupid and die out.

This is called the evolution of a fictional story. Like people and groups may change in real life, this is also true (and more likely) as a fictional story evolves. "Smashing lore into saw dust" these statements make me shake my head.

Kinda why I never side with him. He gets the wrath of the bear everytime. zzz

W8t why is everyone angry at House alone when Caesar makes you do the exact same thing? Besides why is it assumed you can convince eveyone to do anything with 100 speech? Can't convince Papa Khan with speech alone, can't convince Pacer to let you see the King for free without him already expecting you, can't convince Caesar to let Benny go without any violence, can't keep Arcade if you want a Legion ending (afaik), etc.

Yeah I know this, What i'm trying to say is that there is no diplomatic solution for the Bos and I personally like mr.house but when he told me I had to do that and there was no other way I was upset and sided with some one else when I didn't want to

So keep shaking until your head fall off.

Clearly you didn't actually *read* the Fallout lores and fluff; many material while not cannon, would be as close as we can get until cannon version comes out. BoS is define by what they are, a xenophobic tech-hungry self centered priesthood. Until some catastrophic event occur and stop them from keep going, they would either die out or become a xenophobic tech-hungry self centered *cyborg* priesthood. Since there is no strong indication of the later, we can assume it would come to the former.

But that is just it, they wont do that, that is part of who they are, that would make sense for anyone only like them, but they are damn near religious about their thing, go tell real religious fundamentalist to change their ways, get an earful of angry.

I don t want to stray off topic for long, but what a group will evolve into in the future can never be history, because it hasn t happened yet.

With a group like bos who have chapters strung out across the country with no contact with the western bos, (if there is a western bos) it s only logical that at some point some chapters would rather live than die. Elders would make their own decisions when they start looking at their ranks, and their r not enough men to do squat. We know that the cw bos has done this. Im pretty sure that the mid west bos has done this, but just in a different way.

So if you want groups in your fo to be totally unrealistic when it comes the changing with the situation cool.

I am not talking about stray chapters. Developers can almost do anything they want with stray chapters. I am not against stray chapters turning into something else.

What I am talking about is the main body of the BoS, the parent/first/Maxson chapter. Roger Maxson wrote the codex to keep the BoS to become oppressor like the Enclave, and following every word of it is what holds the Brotherhood together.

But I don t know if anyone is sure that the western bos r even still alive they may have died with the codex vs NCR. The mw bos doesn t say 1 word about them, besides telling about why they left to go to mw. I don t think we even know when that was. Veronia s age may be the most telling. Why would NCR just let the state of maxon go???? They know they can wipe them out with numbers.

mw or cw bos hasn t hear from them in a long time. They may already be gone.

Yes after some checking on wiki....... It says the bos helped the player defeat The Master at Mariprosa. Which to me sounds good since The Master doesn t seem real fond of humans.

Then some bos wanted to take in outsiders. Those groups were sent eastward. Turning into your mid west bos. The cw bos were sent out in 2254. Lyons probaby stopped at the mid west bos hangout and thought other people might be a good idea.

It s clear that all throughout Brotherhood history, some of them wanted to take in recruits.



So anytime anyone bashes fo tactics or fo3 about bos canon and lore, they r just plain wrong. As you may know wiki makes semi canon or non canon entries very clear. What I have wrote is fo canon across the board. It is also bos canon and lore across the board.
They were sent away because they knew it was stupid to keep doing things that way. way way back after the original fo. Lyons bos was sent later. He probably thought the bos codex was a good way to die as well.

You say all of that like it's a bad thing. :shifty:

Now the real western bos r pure tards. Maxon is ncr controled and it says bos are scattered across cali, but this is awhile ago. Who ever is left probably wishes they listened to the mid west bos guys.

Now its too late for them, if they come out NCR will kill them. Who know how many bos r even left. I couldn t really find who started the war with NCR. Looks like Van Buren was going to blame bos.

The western bos should die, because they r dumb.

I've never understood this either. Any other group on the map (Khans, Enclave remnants, Boomers, one of the casinos, Kings, FotA), if House asked me to kill them, I'd probably give him the finger. With the Brotherhood though it's so obvious that it's just a preemptive strike against a group that's filled with a bunch of a-holes.

House wants the BOS out of the way because his projections indicate they will be more of a threat to him than any other group. Despite his projections being wrong.

Maxson is mentioned in FO2, by that time BoS is well and alive, and the NCR-BoS war haven't started yet.

The dialogs in NV also inform us the NCR-BoS war haven't ended yet; they are not scatter and become insurgents.

Fact is, they are still holding up a fight with NCR, so it is clear that they can last until the next main event.

HATE BEAMS. :stare:

But honestly, House isn't wrong. Listen to Mr. House and Yes Man. Both of them express concern that the Brotherhood, being the tech worshipping terrorists they are, are basically that bully who gets mad when the other kid has the shinier toy than theirs. Based on dialogue, it's pretty much a near and likely probability that if not right away, then within the near future, the BoS would, as terrorists do, surprisingly, commit terrorism against New Vegas and it's residents. I've never understood this loyalty people have to a bunch of monkeys in power armor. I'm glad the BoS is on the fast track to being wiped out. With the exception of the East Coast BoS, I bear no love for the Brotherhood.

Terrorists, really lol like a said before they maigth be tech maniacs but they are like that to prevent tirans to rule over the wastes they are probably the onlly faction not traying to force a wasteland domination down everyones trougth