By the way, you said your dsl was fried when lighting struck your house? Are commenting from phone, anohter computer or lying?

Another computer, in my apartment. I can't stay home until next week because the well-pump was also screwed. Out of all of the houses where I live, why the hell did lightning strike mine?

Maybe it was the Legion/NCR joint lighting strike on your computer to halt your preaching of Mr House?

Someone disprove this.

It might be. I've been preaching about Mr. House (sometimes Independence) since I started becoming active on the forums, which was around October 2011, so they did a terrible job with a joint-lightning strike. I'm glad they didn't use ARCHIMEDES, though. I was inside the house when it happened.

Hmmm, I am a supporter of House and the Enclave yet nothing happened to me yet. Andronicus and the Enclave have also not been halted.......yet.

Well, they only made me angrier. MORE HOUSE PREACHING. I CANNOT LET THEM WIN.

The electric surge fried my Xbox, Ps3, television, almost all of the outlets in the house, and the DSL.

You on the East Coast, heard the colder winds coming in, with the hotness there. That means Lighting! You play PS3, you should add me when you get a new one. I am Pogita.

Now, continue your preaching!

I live in New Mexico, where we get a crazy-ass monsoon season, and then it hardly rains for the rest of the year.

You know what we need? a propaganda song for Mr. House


Oh rise, New Vegas, rise!
We turn our hopes up to the skies!
Oh rise, New Vegas, rise!
Upon your wings our dreams will fly.
A city in the sand's deep
A promise that we'll always keep
To boldly turn our eyes upon the prize!
So rise, rise, rise!
Oh rise, New Vegas, rise!
We merrily sing this reprise.
Oh rise, New Vegas, rise!
To help us crush parasites despised.
A city on Lady luck's floor
A set of ideals we adore
A philosophy? we all can emphasize
So rise, rise, rise!

PS: I did take this song from Mr. House long lost brother aka Andrew Ryan.

Depends on what u want. Legion is good for entire regions, Mr house pretty much just the Mojave, the rest of the world is up in the air.

Also yes I hate the ncr as well, but the whole deal is that the ncr sees u as an ally not part of them, which is just a ruse so that backstabbing them makes it better when it happens.

Legion demolishes the ncr, but Mr house makes them suffer thru politics and their wallets.

Legion isn't really "good" for the entire region. It's certainly more effective than NCR, but that's not always good.

My biggest complaint about Mr. House (my favorite faction) is that he's quite pragmatic, which is a good-and-bad thing. Not as pragmatic as Caesar, mind you. He doesn't use slaves although they could be very profitable and beneficial. In case someone don't know what "pragmatic" means, it basically means "doing what works". Wiping out the Brotherhood of Steel. It's not the "nice, or good," option. It's the option that works. That's pragmatism.

How do you mean? It's in House's best interest that the NCR DOESN'T suffer economically. All he demands is that military personel withdraw from the Mojave, nothing more.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your point.

Yep, it's simply being practical, and I fail to see how it's a criticism (not saying that's what you think). It allows him to adapt to circumstances effectively and look to the future with a clear state of mind. It's certainly better than doggedly adhering to a strict ideology.

Combine House's pragmatism with his ability to calculate complex algorithms based on socio-economic paradigms, and you have the potential for one of the most effective leader the world has even seen. He doesn't establish strong emotional ties and although this appears cold, it plays to his advantage. His headstrong...ness allows House to progress Vegas unimpeded.

House is the Good option, in my opinion, Caesar's Legion and Anarchy are the two Evil options, again in my opinion, and NCR is Neutral.

Please, if we're operating on absolutes, then elaborate. It really isn't that clear-cut, dude. There are many facets to each faction, some good some bad. I agree, the Legion certainly is the darker shade of gray, for a myriad of reasons.

And how are we measuring the morality of the factions (that's how you appeared to categorise them)? Is it based on intent, the actions themselves, or the consequences?

House

I said in my opinion, so I will give my reasoning.

Independent: My reason for Anarchy being evil is because it leaves the Mojave without any structure, being the courier leaves afterwards. Thus it seems as if the player is abandoning the Mojave to fend for itself, to me.

Caesar's Legion: My reason for the Legion is, even if Caesar was to unite the wasteland slavery would be rampant, they are very cruel, even to their own, and they are just plain brutal. Other than uniting the wasteland so there would be no more war, I can't see a shred of good in them. Even if that is accomplished the people would be so broken I doubt anyone would want to live in this "peaceful" world.

NCR: They have their good and their bad, they are the only one that seems neutral to me.

House: It just seems like the best option. He will destroy the Legion and allow the NCR to have a limited presence, while still protecting the Mojave.

No he won't.

I worded that poorly. I mean he will stop their being a threat in the Mojave,

Pragmatism and his whole socioeconomic and sociopolitical algorithms that would make a baby's head explode is better than Caesar though. While Caesar is very pragmatic and intelligent, his theories all reside from preexisting theories he changes to fit the needs of the Legion. Mr. House, with his numbers, can create totally new theories AND test whether or not they work.

After all, Caesar is very intelligent but he's a human and might make mistakes in his fledgling Empire.

That isn't evil at all. It just means it didn't turn out how you expected. And I remember one of the devs confirming that the Courier stayed to rule over Vegas, though admittedly I couldn't source you on that, so I may be mistaken. Still, it would be illogical for the Courier to abandon Vegas after all he accomplished. I understand that NV is a journey of self-discovery, but the Courier has to settle some day, and I believe that if he were to continue to wander, then Uylsses message would be entirely dismised. Every player RPs their Courier differenty. My Indie Courier persued the Yes Man path in the interest of the people. How is that evil? The intent was good, even if in the short-term the streets were chaotic, doesn't make it evil.

Fair enough. I agree that the Legion has nothing to offer the Mojave, and I believe it will turn itself whether it takes the West or not, for one reason or aother. Caesar's death will simultaneously kill the Legion. But understand - this doesn't discredit what the Legion achieved east of the Colorado. Caesar pacified a land ripe with chaos and criminality. Ironically, slavery liberated the East from lawlessness. The West, however, is an entirely different beast.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but when you say ''this ending is good, this one's bad, and the other's neutral'', it suggests a specific character archtype for each faction, which simply isn't the case. If I side with the NCR, it's not because I'm regarded as neutral from a moral perspective, it's because that character believes in the ideals the NCR represents. It's not about some vague moral alignment. Of course, you could then debate the morality of those ideals, but do you see what I'm getting at?

But at the same time, he is willing to pitilessly eliminate all that stand in his path. Think the Kings and the BoS. I support House, but he is ruthlessly pragmatic (which is a + IMO) and doesn't have much regard for human life if it hinders progress. I think a House ending does have the potential for the brightest future for the Mojave and humanity in general, but at the end of the day, it's all subjective. Others might venomously oppose House, so there's no right or wrong. But you did state it was a personal opinion so fair enough.

Apologies for poor-wording and [censored] syntax; I'm tired

Good that we see eye-to-eye on this matter

Let's not get carried away here. House is still human, too, even if he is an incredibly remarkable one Let's not forget that his inability to adapt to the Lucky 38's older, buggy software rendered him comatose. He's not infallible. This served a purpose, though - it reminded House of his morality. He has no delusions about himself, and I fail to see him falling prey to his image.

I believe in the end slides it says the courier wanders the Mojave, possibly further, leaving Yes Man in-charge. Yes-Man, with his new updated personality, could be quite the tyrant. (Atleast that's the vibe I got from it, I could be totally wrong)


When I assign the labels Good, Neutral, or Bad I mean the parties' actions.

House seems to achieve a lot of good, settling the Mojave, making peace with the NCR, and removing the Legion threat......I'm also a bit of an ends justifies the means type of guy.

NCR has more morally blurred actions, they do a lot of good but they also try and force people to their will, regardless of what the people want. They also are over stretching their hand, thus knowingly endangering the Mojave.

The Legion tortures people, deals with slavery, and kills their own men for fun (Assuming Mr. New Vegas' report on Lanius is true) thus I see their actions as bad.


No worries, I'm pretty tired myself. xD

I mean that House's mistakes on this new software with numbers are far less likely to happen. I'm not giving House too much credit, I'm giving his algorithms credit for accuracy on the DEATH OF CIVILIZATION within the margin of a day. And yeah, House isn't infallible. He's definitely not invincible either, given that I can kill him with the combination of a riot shotgun, stealth boy, and LOTS of stimpaks.


Legion's crucifixions are for a purpose: It strengthens the Legion (I'd rather die by the hands of an enemy than die on a cross) and weakens the resolve of the enemy. And Mr. New Vegas' reports on Lanius isn't that they kill their own men for fun, it's also to strengthen the Legion as a super organism.

Slavery? Well slave labor is the best form of labor (not morally, I mean with just numbers).

Still, do those actions sound morally correct? It might make the Legion strong for them to torture their enemies and having their men kill one another might strengthen the Legion, but are they right?