Balancing could be solved by simply limiting the number of enchantments that could be active at one time, to say, 5 or 6.

Yeah, I suggested that before Skyrim was even announced. It'd probably work better as an overall Enchantment Encumbrance, of sorts though, that way you aren't nerfed out for having a few pieces of +1 stuff, just like you would be for having +20 stuff, but if you're trying to keep it simple, just a base number of active enchantments makes more sense.

Nah. You can only see one layer of clothing/armor anyway - anything beyond that would be redundant.

Clothes under armor, yes. Even Morrowind had that, yes.

Trying too hard.

At least for player-made enchantments, you use soul gems (assuming it works the same). Limited total enchanted gear equipped to something less than or equal to X Grand Soul Gems. You could even base it on the character's Enchant level, so a level 20 Enchanter can only use up to 2 Grand Soul Gems, level 100 can use 10. There could even be perks to increase the number.


Might want to look at the armor ugly_guy linked.

The reason they took it out in Oblivion was for two reasons. The first being because it was exploitable with enchanting and second because of with the new models, it would require adjustment to not have it clip and of course as you know, there was a big time constraint since they were making the game for a console that didn't exist yet. So I'm fine with it coming back as long as you can't enchant the clothes.

So...are you both agreeing with me, or did you misunderstand my post? I was saying that you would realistically have to wear something under your cuirass. :shrug:

Well I don't agree with their way of reducing exploits of enchanting, they mostly destroy enchanting with such simplifications, but they reducing exploits of alchemy in much better way why not apply similar way to enchanting?
New models deals nothing BB has improved look and still allow more equipment slots then Oblivion, making models more advanced also has nothing with such large reduction of equipment slots, I'm ok with some reductions but not so large as was done
Look at this picture
http://www.scenicreflections.com/files/Daedric_Armor_Wallpaper_pi1ty.jpg
And now on this one
http://images.wikia.com/oblivion/images/9/90/DaedricArmor.jpg

Now look at this
http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/95/others/dremora.jpg
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/fms/Image.php?id=87489
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/2552639-1303344567.jpg
There definitely was better way design armor and without of any reductions of slots.

Better return enchant limit on items so not all clothes will have enough space for enchanting but certain expensive items will be or items specially designed for mages, lower class shirt and pants with prison irons (no others hand clothes in all game? while in Morrowind has certain number of different gloves) in not designed to fit good enchants but mythic down cultist robes and hoods and designed for it,so robes will actually useful for mages, jewelry will has of the same level as other items will has larger enchant limit so enchanted items can be in wide assortment at the same level of charcter, thats both fixes unavailability of good items for enchant at low levels in Morrowind (reason why Oblivion has no enchant limit at all) and enchanted lowerclass items thats has the same power as full set of daedric has in Oblivion.

Anyway since we can edit such parameter we can create wide range of items useful for enchanting such parameter is decided it CS for an item so balancing will be not hard to be done just wit esp patches, as well we can create unusual normal items thats work as items of different quality so there can be cloth gloves of poor quality or masterwork ones, such parameters can be part of crafting system so if with enchanting we can create new magical items with smiting we can create new normal items but with different qualities and wide range of parameters so smithing from just repair of damaged items become actual alternative to enchanting and alchemy, thats carfting without need of create load of new models, some items can be great for smitting like iron and steel but poor for enchanting because of low enchant limit as well there can be items thats great for enchanting but hard for smithing because of their unnatural origin like Daedric what almost unchangeable by mundane ways ( so it work as high cap or limit for parameter of items in game nothing can be better then daedric)

There is many ways to make enchanting interesting and balanced not just simplify and remove it features like it was done in Oblivion, thats wrong way removing features instead of their fixing and improving, and I really don't want see such radical changes in Skyrim like was done with enchanting in Oblivion.
Return features from previous games ad new ones not rip them even more as it was in Oblivion.

You could enhant with constant effect in Morrowind aswell?


Anyway, I so want more gear slots, including clothing under my armor I really hope they confirm this soon *sigh* that and shoulder slots

i hated how in OB my guy couldn't wear clothes under his armor, it was awesome in morrowind though! it made tons of sense to have clothing under armor. PLUS cosmetically depending on what armor you wore your clothing would show through some! i always liked to have a blue shirt/pants i guess it could be like in WoW how you could have a shirt equipped (blue,purple,green,yellow,etc) and of course some armor has uncovered parts which is where your shirt would show through!

i also hope that this time they have a CHARACTER equipment page in the inventory. it was really annoying in OB where the inventory pages svcked and it didn't show like the standard paper doll thing. you have this item on your chest, this on your legs, you know? i hope they implement that and like you said, shoulder slots were OUT in OB but were one of my favorite things in morrowind. i like to mix-and-match armor pieces especially if they make my guy look super badass!
add a PAPER-DOLL in inventory, people LOVE it being easy to see what they got equipped. FACT.

Well, over could be cool, but more difficult. Under would be very easy. Basically, if you were wearing clothes or a robe and a robe and you put a cuirass on, it would work, robes and greaves would obviously not be able to be worn together as far as cloth under armor goes. But to avoid clipping, when you have cloth items on under your armor, your skin texture for clothed areas would simply change to the texture of that cloth, which would look fine and ensure that it never clipped with the armor. Thoughts?

Under Armour: Yes, why not.

Robes over armour: No,It would only hinder you, you couldn't move as agile/ fast.

But it usually wasn't normal clothing. Gambesons, arming doublets etc were worn in place of normal clothing beneath armour. I found it easy enough to assume that the armour in Oblivion came with such items provided

I want to wear a briastplate over a set of robes. Battle mage FTW.

This is true. However, I would like to see them be separate, so if I wanted to remove my cuirass and just walk around in my doublet, I can.

In Daggerfall, your character was a 2D gif, which you could only see as a picture on your inventory. Pretty easy to draw ...
3D models, however, a completely different story.

Yh this thread remembers me too about LOTR. When Frodo get's pwnd by a troll stabbing him with a spear...

Equipment layering can be achieved in 3d game also, such tool can allow variability of equipment without large modeling work, as well having such system as base can be greatly expanded by mods, equipment mods one of most popular avenues of modding for Oblivion and Morrowind, as well for Fallout 3.

Mages need some exclusive, highly enchantable set of gear to wear instead of armor. Including circlets/diadems/hats for the head slot. It was laughable that in the previous games to get the most out of enchantment one had to wear heavy armor.

That would be fair enough
After all in the Renaissance it became fashionable to wear them as clothing as a way of showing off your status

I would like to see surcoats wearable over armour preferably with an option to choose heraldic devices to have on them

As others have suggested, its the sigil stones and constant effect enchantments combined with no inherent enchant strength caps on items that are the reason for no clothing under armor in Oblivion (probably clipping issues too). This is probably also why there were no pauldrons or individual gloves (instead of the pairs they came as in Oblivion).

Personally, I would love to see a return of clothing under armor, enchantment caps on items, and rare constant effect enchantments....return cast on use armor and even weapon enchantments!

I would like to see a particular instance of armour over clothes: in the case of robes, and to give a battlemage look, it would be very cool to wear a robe and then being able to equip a cuirass over it.

er.. yeah, a lot of things can be achieved in 3D, but layered clothing without extensive modeling work? I don't think so. Sure, if you want it to look like crap and have the models clip all over the place or show gaps here and there, no problem... but if you want to make it look right...