Feel free to poke some holes in this idea because I'd like to understand why it hasn't been done. Truth is, out of all the Beth games I played (Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3, and now Skyrim) I actually enjoyed the way leveling was handled in Morrowind the best. In Skyrim for example there's something inherently insulting about encountering basic Draugrs at level 5 but then only findging Draugr Scourges or Wights at level 25. If you want me to fight a stonger enemy, don't just put a stonger version of the same enemy there- put a stronger enemy there. That's one of the many things Morrowind did right- there's a big difference between a mudcrab and a Golden Saint, and by the time you could beat both of them you felt very powerful, just as you should at the end of an ES game... as opposed to feeling such a glaringly intermittent and inconsistent mix of powerful and weak at all times.

Anyway, I should get to the point: a lot of attention has been given to the scaling issue that persists in Skyrim. Some people note that it is a glaring problem when enemies become a more difficult challenge just because your character concentrates on non-combat skills for a period of time, and I agree completely. It seems there is an obvious solution- how about your character level only when you use combat skills like destruction, one-handed, etc.? Other skills like Speech or Alteration for example could increase with use, and make your transactions or stealth activities more successful the more you do them, but not contribute to leveling the character. What do you think?

A moot point really, the game isn't hard on any difficulty or with any play style. You can always bail out of a difficult situation and come back once you've got the tools to handle it, or just cheese a fight by exploiting pathfinding, follower "immortality", physics engine, console commands. I'm running around with a 30 level khajiit thief without a single perk in combat skills and I get by just fine.

You do realize this will gimp combat characters and warrior builds? A better way to fix this problem is to fix scaling - limit it severely and work on making combat challenging in other ways: like bring back the skill-based chance to hit from Morrowind. I can already hear the cries "ITS NOT IMMERSIVE" as I'm typing this words. To this I reply: BS.

It's a problem of animating the enemy dodging your blow or deflecting it. The skill-based chance to hit brought much needed balance to Morrowind and allowed to create weapons that really felt like strong weapons. The Balmoran Sword of White Woe was an awesome ebony longsword, but unless the player dumped money into quickly raising his swordfighting skills, he'd miss most of the time. I think the "hits always connect" design decision is the root of all balancing problems since Oblivion.

This would just make the crafting professions even more powerful than they are now. Not a very well thought out idea.

Throw the baby out with the bath water much? A more moderate solution would be to create another variable that controls level scaled creatures. Every 10 combat skills, would increase the variable by 1. Also, such a solution ought to be possible to implement with the tools we are given (once the CS kit comes out)

How is this different from what the op suggested? Well you would still get better loot based on your level. You would also gain perk points as normal. Since this game has a far less noticeable scaling system with regards to weapons/armor(In regards to equipment npcs spawn with), it should not unbalance the game. It'd also prevent the odd level 20 bear from spawning when you have only been playing with say pickpocket or speech.

If a person was feeling fancy, non combat skills could still increase combat difficulty, but at a different ratio then combat skills. Like 20 non combat skills increase difficulty by 1. This would further adjust any imbalances a smith or enchanter might encounter. (Assuming of course you don't exploit the hell out of the current system)

Making the combat oritentated skills level the player up isn't really a solution either. Why limit it at all? In Morrowind and Oblivion you could level up any damned way you pleased. You could pick any skill you wanted and level up by using those skills. Why now try to limit the player? Again Bethesda with removing choice! Now we don't have any choice about leveling so everytime you sell your loot from a dungeon my speechcraft jumps a couple of points, which isn't really helping me fight Aludin now is it? Maybe i could talk him to death or persuade him not to set fire to towns and villages...yeah don't see it happening.

No.

My thief would be gimped, and this would make crafting even stronger. My thief gains a large amount of levels from Speech, Lockpicking, and Pickpocketing, none of which are combat abilities. If you consider Sneak a combat ability, he may be able to level somewhat.

As for crafting being stronger: You could level it to 100 at level one, if you chose to.

@ Zahvir: The point of my post isn't directly about difficulty.


@ Tagaziel: You do realize we are saying the same things but in different ways, right?


@Mrbigglesworth: Okay- you are saying as long as crafting doesn't contribute to leveling you can make an exquisite-level sword that can one-hit any enemy at level one. But this wouldn't be the case if it were more like Morrowind, where you could run into a Golden Saint at level one if you looked in the right places. Do you get my point now?

I think that completely removes the consequences of not developing combat and powerlevelling other skills.. so no. I disagree.

@ Mavkiel - You get it- thanks.


@ Vicente- Not sure I get who you are directing your post to.


@ Adebar- Thanks for your good feedback. You make the point that there should be a way to level stealth characters too. Its is good to hear from a different perspective and this is what I'm looking for.

How? You're trying to fix a problem by gimping combat skills and making the difficulty curve even steeper. To this I respond by proposing a solution that addresses balance issues that arose ever since Oblivion decided to implement a "all hits must connect" rule (courtesy of TH).

I'll elaborate: since Oblivion, the player has the ability to deal damage continuously, as does the enemy. This directly affects gameplay balance, as the developers can't put great weapons (like the aforementioned White Woe blade) early in the game, because the player will be able to deal good damage to any enemy. So, damage is scaled directly with combat skills. This necessitates scaling of creatures with player level, so that once they are high enough, the game won't become a cakewalk.

In comparison, Morrowind used a "chance to hit" feature, which greatly improved balance, as a low skill character couldn't button mash his way through stronger enemies. He simply died. In Oblivion and Skyrim, it is possible to button mash your enemy to death. I'm speaking from experience: in Morrowind, I had to plan my attack and maneuver all the time with a prepared power strike, waiting for an opportunity to attack. In Skyrim, I'm pretty much mashing buttons to deal as much damage as possible while abusing potion hotkeys.

I've never thought of it like this before. This makes a lot of sense.

A "gimped" craftsman who does not have combat skills isn't really gimped. It is only because a few wannabes following a guide to "ultimate power" did not use their Character's learned skills to full potential.

A character and his follower fully decked out in full legendary Daedric with maxed magic resist cannot have problems even on master at ANY LEVEL.

How exactly am I gimping combat skills when I'm suggesting those skills are the only ones that count towards leveling up? You're response about 'chance to hit' refers to the method of skill increases, not leveling increases. While skill increases contribute to level increases, I'm talking strictly about leveling mechanics, regardless of how the skills are increased. I'm starting to wonder if you've even read my op.