Almost like a "fallout simulator"? Being born in the world of fallout (either in a vault, or just out in the wastes to a couple of survivalists), and having to live your life in the harsh world of the wastes.

No real "main quest", but just a virtually endless possibility of choices lie ahead. Are you going to grow up (think fallout 3 "grow up") and become a trader? (minimal weapon skills, but high speech/barter/charisma, the ability to talk your way out of anything, or hire people that can help when talking isn't enough)

Will you just be a wasteland explorer, going from settlement to settlement, marking places on your map, and then selling those locations?

will you be a ruthless mercenary, doing whatever pays best? maybe you'll be just a raider, starting low at first, picking on helpless wasteland wanderers, untill you can find a gang, eventually working your way up to be one of the wastelands most feared raiders?

How about aspire for greatness? Maybe become a higher up in the BoS?

Or maybe become a supermutant, or ghoul?

Whatever you chose, the story would follow that path. The quests would come to you based on how you play. for instance, you could play an entire game without having to kill anyone. If you're a trader, you just have your hired guns do all the killing, and your quests would include things like take [package/goods] to [town], or sell [item] to [x] people, or even things like help [settlement] get their feet off the ground by scrounging up [resources]. Eventually you could become a renowned trader, possibly one of the richest men in the wastes, everyone comes to you for money. maybe even start your own settlement (like that guy in the Prince of Persia movie). There would also be a threat of raiders trying to jump you, or knock you out and steal from you (an "unconscious" status would be in effect) or even selling you into slavery.

Or you say if you chose to be a raider. Life is tough in the wastes. You gotta work hard for respect. At first it would be simple, scavving in the wastes for food, water. Killing traders, caravans, even other raiders for food/supplies. Then eventually quests would come along to either get innitiated into a gang, or start one of your own, which would involve having to "break a few eggs". Eventually, your gang would grow, and you'd have quests to start raiding small settlements to feed/supply everyone in the gang. Maybe even have a raiding schedule, once a week. Maybe even arrange a trade off. "your town gives us 1000 caps, and [food/supplies] and we leave you alone." towns could hire mercenaries, which would cause new problems. eventually you'd be a kingpin, and have all new problems to deal with...

basically, You would literally have to live your life as though you were a part of the wastes. With all the threats and freedoms of such a life. there would be devious NPC's, and theifs, backstabbers, liars, etc.

It would be a lot of work, and I don't know how popular it would be, but I would really like a more "sandbox" Fallout game, where you actually have to fight for your life, and your belongings. as it is now, the only loss you ever have to suffer is your death. You'll never get lied to, you'll never get betrayed, and you'll never ever lose any items to thieves. I just want a little more realism in the game

Even if there IS a main story, I'd like to be able to play the game however I want. As it stands, you HAVE to fight, and you can't really just be a raider. I understand not everyone wants to play a sim, and would rather have the rather unrealistic (but fun) style we have now.

Who's to say there can't be a happy medium though? I mean, honestly, I'd be happy if the next fallout game just had more threats than to your life. I really want enemy pickpockets (your chance of detecting them would be based on your perception, the enemy's sneak skill, and what they were trying to steal). And there would always be a way to get your items back. track down the thief, talk him out of the stuff/kill him/steal your stuff back, etc. or even if you get taken by slavers, you can break out, maybe use some kind of affiliation with a gang/faction to help you get out, and on your way out, open a container and get all your items back. etc. But I love it when games have unexpected events. maybe make it an option for like, a hardcoe mode or something?

Anyway, I've dragged on enough, you guys get the jist of what I'm saying. So what do you think? would you play a game that was Fallout, but with a bit more "reality" in it?

Your idea is awesome, I just don't think it's plausible with today's technology yet.

/probably wrong

THANKS! I'm glad somoene agrees! :foodndrink:

And honestly, that is my only concern, is that the current platforms (short of maybe a high-end PC) wouldn't be able to handle such a dynamic game. (that would explain why it hasn't really been done yet, other than low demand)... But hey, I'd imagine that if a quality dev (like bethesda) put their minds to it, it could be done.

I mean, Oblivion was pretty close to that. Sure there was a main quest, but the world was MASSIVE. Make a fallout place as big as the land in oblivion, add the ability to choose your destiny (as it were), increase the AI, and the NPC's abilities, and poof!

Come to think of it.. maybe that IS too much maybe in a few years

The problem is not so much the technology as it is the work needed. Aside from the world itself with whatever happens, you would need an entire quest line for each and every alternative start. Furthermore, you would need to handle it if someone were to change paths, ie a Raider becomming a Trader or a Mercenary.

Without the quest line, there are a number of Alternate Start mods for both Oblivion and Fallout 3, where you can chose alternative backgrounds and starting locations. They also change which faction you are a member of. To my knowledge, none of them change the dialog (so even the android character is a child of James and comes from the Vault) or add faction specific options or quests.

Hmm. Well, What if it were sort of like... (forgive me, but bear with me) GTAIV? where it's always the same quests, but they all inevitably lead to the same ending (or maybe two or three different ones depending on your karma?)? because lord knows it's not the ending, it's how you got there, right? So say regardless of what path you chose (you always start out the same way, it's just from there, the choices you make define your role), the ending will be similar... though i'm not sure how that'd work out.

Honestly, theres no two ways about it.. it would take a LOOOOOOT of work. You're basically building a new game from the ground up.

I suppose this would be more of a good idea for an MMO... thus you'd be creating a whole new world all together... but still. it COULD work as a SP game, just .. yeah. a lot of time would be required...

The thing I have noticed with MMOs in general is that their multiplayability (stupid and probably nonexistent word, I know) tends to take away immersion, good quests, etc. Although this might be fixed by having some sort of forced RPing like WoW RP servers.

Realistic games aren't fun though.

STALKER series are the closest it can get to what you wish.
But as the others said, it's too dynamic. But it doesn't mean it can't work on today's consoles/PCs, it just would require a tremendous amount of time and resources to create a game like this. It can have mid-end graphics like FO3, but to make it this dynamic you need a lot of coding and programming.

Well, to you, maybe. but I personally would really love to play something like that. the freedom to do whatever, as long as you don't get caught. hehe. but maybe I'm wrong. maybe someone somewhere has playtested the feature of getting "caught", and it didn't work out well... or something.

I dunno.. but yeah. Thats just... like.. your opinion.. man.

Don't understand why so many wants simulations instead of games.
For me it's a clear no.
Wouldn't even like it for a separate game mode.

Why do you want it to be so realistic?
What's the point?

Because it would make it a challenge. You'd actually have to work for it to beat the game. I mean, why do people find the sims fun? why do people find civilization fun? Gran Turismo? I'd like to choose my own path in the wastes. I want to be a true raider, or an actual pacifist, found my own city in the wastes, etc. It'd be a big project, but man it would be awesome!

and the fact that it would be in the fallout universe makes it even better!

I think you have a split in your goals when you play a game to many others.
Games are goal oriented. Rewards are doled out for tasks completed. I think you find yourself enjoying the task more than the reward, most of us feel a sense of achievement and a right to the reward in context. When i set out to accomplish something i have a clear and defined reason for it. I am not going to wander in the dangerous building because i think it might be fun, i do it because i think there may be something in the which would make the trip worth while. What you propose involves a incredible amount of tedium that is unnecessary. Menial tedious tasks do not change who your character is, or his/her goals, nor impact with in a meaningful way. We look for progression and growth, i think you desire simple existence. There is nothing wrong with any of that, i just think you will find yourself in area that requires the biggest army of programmers ever conceived with a rather small audience.

ehh, trust me, I love a good reward as much as the next guy, but I would also like to, as you put it "simply exist" in the world of fallout, y'know? but yeah. What you said about "you will find yourself in area that requires the biggest army of programmers ever conceived with a rather small audience." is exactly what I figured, I highly doubt this game will EVER happen, but I'd still like to pretend hehe.

I just wanted to know how many other people out there would play a game like this. heh. Also, I think the desire for this game has more to do with my love for micromanagement over some kind of wanderlust. I want to be in control over everything my character has to do. However, that doesn't mean I am asking for a flood of tedium like "you need a fork to eat cram on a stick", or "you have to go to the bathroom" etc. The way I imagine my game is like Fallout 3 (or NV, whatever) but instead of having a very "defined" almost "linear" path laid out for a story, it would just be "side quests", that would link to each other in the same way many of FO3's side quests linked (think Tenpenny tower and You gotta shoot em in the head, or moreso, The wasteland survival guide, and how long of a chain that was). And then, after a while, depending on how those quests were completed, you find yourself in a position of being "the best in your class", which opens the final main story arch. How's that sound? say you are the best merchant in the wastes (i keep referring to this because you can't really play as a merchant in any of the Fallout games), you have amassed a fortune greater than any other person in your area, you run a small town (proverbially, not literally, I'm not saying you have to handle menial tasks like voting, taking care of the people, whatever), and then shortly after that, you get a message of something big going down, and they need supplies, or a negotiator, or something. so that kickstarts the final quest which leads to something big.

how does that sound? a little more "goal oriented" for you? (that is a very valid point, most gamers, myself included, do desire an actual "goal")

I completely agree with this idea. I too enjoy the micromanagement parts of games. Everyone says sleeping and eating are tedious tasks, but I know I would absolutely love these things. I want 99% realism; eating, sleeping, temperature, sickness, health, damage.. The only thing I don't want to have to deal with for some reason is going to the bathroom.

Games are indeed goal oriented, with the developers making quests for you to complete and goals for you to achieve. But in a simulation, like life, you 'simply exist' and set your own goals. We don't need someone else setting goals for us.

But obviously this would take a veritable army of developers an extremely long time to conceive and program every possible path you wish to take, and every twist you do on that path. We currently have the technology to do this, but it would take too many people too long to create something that probably wouldn't be a huge financial success. But maybe as technology progresses, it'll be easier and quicker to program a lot of information, and we'll see a game like this in a few decades.

Even without the dynamic storyline the newer Fallout games could do with some improvement. Where are the brahmin herds being driven from town to town, pasture to pasture? Where are the farms? Towns? Mines? Where are the trading caravans? Where are the raiders based and how are they organized? Why hasn't the world been fleshed out like Fallout 1 and Fallout 2? Those games were made in the technological dark ages of the 1990's and they seemed more lively, more detailed than a game made with hundreds of developers and a budget 30 times higher.

I would love to see what the OP is talking about implimented but the tech isn't there yet, still some of what he is talking about would be possible if the devs simply made the setting more plausible by fleshing it out and adding consequences to your actions.

For example, by implimenting trade/cattle caravans to move supplies between towns, you could create all sorts of emergent gameplay and opportunities for quests. Raid a trading caravan? Watch prices go up along that route as supplies begin to dwindle. Hell, raid enough caravans and only the most daring traders will travel the route and only as long as the people they are trading with are able to continue living in that area. If the town or settlement they are visiting is small or economically weak, the people will probably have to move away being unable to pay the higher rates for well-guarded caravans. On the other hand if the town or settlement is large and can afford to pay the higher fees, you could find your raiding activities curtailed as the caravans become better protected and the route begins to be regularly patrolled by armed townspeople.

Making the game more lively isn't that big of a task, simply scripting numerous "minor" events to change the gameworld periodically would be nice. A raider attack on Megaton, a broken waterchip in Rivet City, a minor settlement destroyed with the survivors fleeing to x town, events you could either participate in or allow to resolve themselves. Instead of leaving NPCs to stand around doing absolutely nothing in your absence, allowing the game world to change even in minor ways would keep the game refreshing even if you have taken care of most of the interesting and important quests.

A dynamic storyline would be much easier to pull off in a lively, fleshed out game world simply because all the people and game world elements needed for such a changeable storyline would be in place. It would be very difficult to become a "reknowned" trader given
that there seems to be hardly any trade actually physically happening in Fallout 3 because no one is making anything, no one is growing or herding anything and everyone is living off 200 year old food and ammunition.

I'm dying for a lack of mods which do this and I don't have much confidence in these types of changes happening.

Although I would love to see it for myself, I think it is not possible.

It would require a lot of scripting, and the more scripts you have the bigger chance of bugs. I think that once they've solved the biggest amount of bugs they'd need to update the graphics, wich in turn requires some scripts to be altered, giving bux that need to be fixed, wich takes time to do and once ready the graphics are again outdated and they switch to a new engine. Wich results in bugs needing to be fixed, and once they're done with that....


Well, I think you get my point.

Only if it's a separate game mode but with a lot of thought and unique design to it then yeah I could like that.
But if they change the core gameplay to total realism then I won't buy it and I will consider the Fallout franchise to be dead.

My problem with games today is the lack of real challenge. Adding some realism would definitely go a long way toward creating a more entertaining experience for me. RPGs in general have ways to work the system at the highest difficulty so that there is no real challenge. Fallout 3 added some seriously powerful opponents with the Broken Steel DLC, but also neutered them with the inclusion of super allies who can survive anything short of a nuclear bomb (Dog meat and Charon) then miraculously heal to full the second combat is over. I wish the NPC helpers were actually as fragile (ie. broken limbs, low health regeneration, and degrading equipment) as me, or more so, so that I have to take into consideration their strengths and weaknesses as well as providing a practical application for non-combat skills.

Just making them need me for survival means that a combat purist would be encumbered when trying to manage helpers and discourage jumping straight into the enemy's face with guns blazing. Also limiting the progression in skills other than tagged ones so that a player can only do a few things very well instead of being able to get "max everything". Without limitations all characters become the same and diminishes immersion factor. At the end of the game I do not want to be an invincible "wasteland god". It could be implemented as a new difficulty option, that removes stuff like bobble heads from the game world as well as the number of skill increasing books. To me it seems that making the character customization is completely pointless as it stands now. Even Fallout 1 and 2 had similar problems of generalists being able to do EVERYTHING as well as any who specialize in a few skills.

I guess that is the problem with all "sandbox" games. It seems only the linear ones who set arbitrary restrictions based on initial character generation (Dragon Age) actually put your character into a 'role' to play.

Well actually... about the whole you can beat the game without killing, that is a possiblity in F:NV. You can knock people out using special attacks ammo and poisions, or you could sneak past them.

o and there will be some challenge in Fallout New Vegas. The hardcoe mode adds in the challenge of needing to get food water and rest on your journey. Then just make the game hard and your set for the ultimate challenge.

Where is the thread to discuss a Fallout MMO?

I would love for a huge PvP world. You choose your faction and you are only allowed uninhibited access in those areas. If you go to anyone elses faction area, you better have a damn good reason or plenty to trade, or plenty of firepower and friends. The open wasteland would be huge and fair game.

I think the games economy should be limited to trading goods, with no form of currency (maybe that wouldn't work). The only faction based NPC's should be in their respective towns, and not roaming around in the wasteland. The only humanoid based life you should find in the wastes should be other players to fight against. No wandering idiot raiders or traders... just other players. You can either fire at will or try to converse and trade things out.

I want realistic. It should take a lot of resources and someone very skilled to fix items. If someone kills you, they get duplicates of [some of] your items, but the condition of your items is cut in half (basically your items are split in two to make the duplicates). Might not make sense, but it is all I can think of right now.

If you drink or eat anything with rads you should get sick, including vomiting animations every so often and slow movement. If you stay this way for too long your health should start declining slowly until you pass out. When you "pass out", you respawn at a location (yet to be determined), but your gears condition is split in half. You will have a few minutes to try and return to your dead body to return your gear to the condition that it was. OR... some other player can find your gear and choose to pick it up (at the split condition level). You still keep your gear at the split condition level if someone else loots your body.

BUT... weight capacity for carrying things will be extremely limited, so chances are someone would opt to not pick up your gear unless it was really good.

This is all I can think of right now. I'm getting too excited thinking about a huge Fallout MMO, so I may need to stop anyways.

Great idea of course. However the only way to accomplish something like this for a single player game, would be to do procedural generation of content. In essence most of the development would go into creating the process by which the game builds the world. It would be hard to get the level of dynamic 'on the fly' content desired otherwise. Tricky prospect, neh?

The other way to arrive at something like the OP suggests is via a MMO version of the Fallout franchise. It will be a while yet till we know how a project like that may turn out. However I would have doubts about a MMO development team aiming for a ultra realistic 'simulation' MMO for the Fallout universe as the OP describes.

nevermind about any of my hopes for a Fallout MMO.

I got to thinking about it more last night, and as with any MMO, the land would be saturated with griefer players that would just mess up everything. It would completely lose the "isolation" atmosphere that is essential for a post-apocalyptic experience. Then I was thinking that they could do limited multiplayer like the free-roaming mode in Red Dead Redemption, but that is screwed with griefers also. I forgot that whenever you put in the variable of "random gamer", you will get idiots.

RIP, Fallout MMO. I will miss you.

The game you're looking for is a Sims/Fallout Hybrid.

I like it, but it's just not very realistic that we'll see it in the near future. I think you're better off acting it out in real life. Move to a rural area of Montana, North/South Dakota or Alaska, save your money to build a Fallout shelter, stock up on weapons, ammunition, fuel, gold and various survivalist equipment, and live the fantasy.