How come no one helped? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:18 am

why did all the 'gods' and other Daedric Princes just stand by and watch him? Are they all 'evil' or what. Forgive me I am no lore buff.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:13 am

why did all the 'gods' and other Daedric Princes just stand by and watch him? Are they all 'evil' or what. Forgive me I am no lore buff.

Because they didn't want to ruin the MQ. And well technically

Spoiler

the player could be Sheogorath and therefore someone did interfere.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:15 pm

Because we do the same if someone gets assaulted in real life. We think that someone else will come to help

Edit: Big spoiler

Spoiler

If you do the MQ you′ll know that Tamriel is in fact Dagon′s realm from the start so no-one has reason to interfere

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:27 pm

Because we do the same if someone gets assaulted in real life. We think that someone else will come to help

Edit: Big spoiler

Spoiler

If you do the MQ you′ll know that Tamriel is in fact Dagon′s realm from the start so no-one has reason to interfere

I thought that was just mad propaganda by camoran

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:21 pm

The Nine are also a little crazy, and as I understand it, not able to just manifest themselves on Nirn like the Daedric Princes can, who themselves aren't very chummy with each other and mind their own business. In general, this isn't like pantheons from our history -- nobody really cares to step into mortal affairs. It's not that they're evil or anything, they just keep to themselves more. That's been my impression anyway.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:44 am

Spoiler

If you do the MQ you′ll know that Tamriel is in fact Dagon′s realm from the start so no-one has reason to interfere

No it's not. That's just a psychopath (Mankar) ranting. Dagon's realm is the Deadlands. Mundus is Lorkhan's.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:45 pm

No it's not.

Didn't it used to be though? I forget....

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:11 am

Didn't it used to be though? I forget....

It's Dagon's birthright, in that Dagon is supposed to COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY ANNIHILATE MUNDUS!

Caps for emphasis.

Mundus is nothing more than a giant compilation of dead and mostly dead aedra, and Shor for mortals.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:35 pm

No it's not. That's just a psychopath (Mankar) ranting. Dagon's realm is the Deadlands. Mundus is Lorkhan's.

Well, from a certain point of view Dagon has a claim to Tamriel and Nirn. Dagon was once a part of Magnus, the architect of Nirn. That could be one of the reasons Dagon has constantly tried to take Nirn. Of course in reality Nirn and Mundus are the realm of those beings that gave of themselves to create the mortal plane and all its natural and physical laws.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:43 am

why did all the 'gods' and other Daedric Princes just stand by and watch him? Are they all 'evil' or what. Forgive me I am no lore buff.

Who do you think ultimately stopped Dagon?

I believe Akatosh had something to do with it based on the following UESP quote:

The Amulet of Kings is infused with the Dragon God Akatosh's blood, and as Martin is a part of the Dragonblood, he may be able to use his joined blood, the Amulet, and the power of Akatosh's Temple to summon the power of the Dragon himself. He bids you farewell, gasps a thanks to you for all that you've done, and rushes atop the altar as Dagon smashes through the rooftop. Staring down upon the last Septim, Dagon menaces him, and Martin stands against him, unafraid. Suddenly, beams of light burst forth from Martin as he shatters the Amulet, and transforms into a gigantic, flaming dragon. Dagon and Martin - now the Avatar of Akatosh - clash, the two immortals battling for the fate of Cyrodiil. Finally, Martin swoops down and buries his jaws into Dagon's neck, wounding him, and finishing him off with a breath of holy fire. Dagon falls, his physical form banished and the Oblivion Gates closed. Martin, however, pays the ultimate price for borrowing the power of Akatosh: He turns to stone atop the Temple Altar, an eternal monument to him.

If you mean why did none of the other Divines or Daedric Princes intervene earlier, good question.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:19 am

Why didnt the Nine just kill Dagoth Ur on his way to Red Mountain? Why didnt the Nine completely annihilate the moon above Vivec to protect the people in Morrowind? Why didnt the Nine assist Uriel V to utterly crush all resistance on Akavir and conquer that hell-hole?
Why didnt the Nine stop the Agent of Daggerfall before making the Dragon break? Cus I guess Akatosh doesnt like that.

Why didnt anything of this happen?

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:59 am

Why didnt the Nine just kill Dagoth Ur on his way to Red Mountain? Why didnt the Nine completely annihilate the moon above Vivec to protect the people in Morrowind? Why didnt the Nine assist Uriel V to utterly crush all resistance on Akavir and conquer that hell-hole?
Why didnt the Nine stop the Agent of Daggerfall before making the Dragon break? Cus I guess Akatosh doesnt like that.

Why didnt anything of this happen?

Usually, the Nine lack the power to directly interfere. Hence why they rely on mortal champions.

Edit: Now for the more complicated answer:

Due to the Divine Pact, the influence of Lorkhan and the Aedra (sounds like a band) can be felt by myth; it doesn't matter if the myth replicates every detail of them, as long as it's similar enough to them, the myth can seemingly draw power from them to give the impression of a diety. Even a small village can be enough for such purposes. As such, we say the Divines are retroactive.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:50 am

The nine can not usually physically manifest and interfere with anything. They're "dead", or at least mostly depleted. This happened during creation of Mundus. They sacrificed almost all of their power. The only reason Akatosh can appear is due to very special circumstances (Martin shedding his own blood and breaking the Amulet of Kings.)

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:39 pm

The nine can not usually physically manifest and interfere with anything. They're "dead", or at least mostly depleted. This happened during creation of Mundus. They sacrificed almost all of their power. The only reason Akatosh can appear is due to very special circumstances (Martin shedding his own blood and breaking the Amulet of Kings.)

Maybe the gods hold back because they know the outcome already? I'm reminded of the title of Tolstoy's story "God sees the Truth, but waits". It could be the Nine don't live from moment to moment the way mortals do.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:35 am

It's Dagon's birthright, in that Dagon is supposed to COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY ANNIHILATE MUNDUS!

Caps for emphasis.

Mundus is nothing more than a giant compilation of dead and mostly dead aedra, and Shor for mortals.

Damn. TES universe is pretty depressing, if you think about it.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:10 am

I have a problem with the concept of "gods", except of course the very definition of the word. Just because someone has great powers and can do things you can never do, doesn′t mean that they are gods. They may just appear to be.
Take this example. Fly a helicopter through the air in lets say the 1500s. They would probably think that the world is coming to an end while we barely look up when we hear one.

The Nine may not really be gods, and deadra may not be monsters. They only appear to be those things in our eyes

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Yes, some gods are really just deified culture heroes or powerful beings. On the other hand, someone who made the world and can unmake it is probably a god.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:28 pm

I have a problem with the concept of "gods", except of course the very definition of the word. Just because someone has great powers and can do things you can never do, doesn′t mean that they are gods. They may just appear to be.
Take this example. Fly a helicopter through the air in lets say the 1500s. They would probably think that the world is coming to an end while we barely look up when we hear one.

The Nine may not really be gods, and deadra may not be monsters. They only appear to be those things in our eyes

words we use don't matter that much do they? 'The Gods' are complicated and powerful beings, that's all that is important

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:52 pm

I also have a theory going where other Princes provided auxilaries for Dagon's army during the fight. Hence why we saw Spider Daedra (Mephala), Daedroths (Molag Bal), and Aurons (Meridia) being opportunists. Although, to truly make sense, Azura would also have had to have at least tacitly supported the invasion...

And other Princes would've opposed the invasion. I'd imagine Sanguine wouldn't have been thrilled about it, and Sheogorath as mentioned thumbed his nose directly at Dagon by making a portal that didn't need to bypass the barriers. Of course, Sheo opposed the invasion because it meant having a crisis of identity... but that's just a motivation.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:48 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if the Daedra were protecting there own spheres from dagon.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:12 am

Although, to truly make sense, Azura would also have had to have at least tacitly supported the invasion...

She took out Red Tower and the Tribunal in one swoop, probably the two biggest things holding back an invasion after the Amulet of Kings, what more do you want from her...

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:19 am

She took out Red Tower and the Tribunal in one swoop, probably the two biggest things holding back an invasion after the Amulet of Kings, what more do you want from her...

More bewbz

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:53 pm

She took out Red Tower and the Tribunal in one swoop, probably the two biggest things holding back an invasion after the Amulet of Kings, what more do you want from her...

Point taken.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:38 pm

And well technically

Spoiler

the player could be Sheogorath and therefore someone did interfere.

As well as he can be

Spoiler

enbodyment of Pelinal

.

» Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:42 am

words we use don't matter that much do they? 'The Gods' are complicated and powerful beings, that's all that is important

Yes the words we use to name those beings probably don′t mean anything to them. But then we come into discussion of how WE define the word in question... B)