Hi all,

I'm trying to support the authors whose mods I'm using in my modded game. I was surprised to see that not all the mods include a Donate option on their Nexus page. Am I just looking in the wrong place - maybe they take donations from some other page - like steam's workshop? Why wouldn't a mod author want a donation?

Many thanks!

Donations is an option mod authors choose when they create their upload. And no, not all authors want a donation. (I don't)

And getting donations doesn't make you a better modder, am I right.

I see donations as a way to show appreciation for the author's contribution. The size of the donation can subjectively reflect the complexity and quality of the mod but there are no hard and fast rules.

There are several modders who would rather receive intelligent feedback than money. You have to keep in mind one thing: modding is a hobby for most of us. When money is involved, things change. Money nearly always comes with strings attached to it. That's just the way the world works, there is no way around that. Mod users may feel they now have a right to tell mod makers what to do because they have given them money.

A hobby can be fun. A business is much less likely to be fun. Therefore, several modders would like their modding to remain a hobby.

Sometimes I wish we had a like button, but yeah, couldn't have said it better myself.

Considering that the donation button is an option a user consciously chooses to have displayed on their page, don't put words in others' mouths.

With regard to the original poster's question: you have to choose to link your Paypal to your Nexus profile, and then further to show the donation button on your files. If you can't find a button on a specific mod's page, try the author's profile. If you can't find it there, they're not accepting donations. You can always politely raise the issue through a private message if you'd like the author's reasons.

Very good suggestion regarding the PM, thank you! There's some really good work out there which has significantly added to my enjoyment of the game. I feel I have an obligation to compensate the author's effort. I'm also happy to provide my personal opinion, should the author solicit it, but I'd rather not burden every author with unsolicited 'input'.

Do keep in mind, they're donations, so you should never feel obligated to give one. They're meant to be entirely voluntary.

Yes, there are authors who don't accept them, but on average I see more who enable the option now than those who don't, which tends to indicate to me that more people than not would be entirely fine with a more formalized and open system for handling payments than those opposed to the idea seem to realize.

Explain to me how I "put words in other's mouths."

You didn't. You said "many" and there are many who agree with everything you said. You didn't say "all". So you clearly were not speaking for everybody.

There are undoubtedly many with the opposite view, as well, but I see no way what you wrote could be legitimately construed as "put[ting] words into other's mouths."

Exactly! A donation has no strings attached. Even if the donor feels entitled, the author clearly doesn't have any obligation to honor an unsolicited request.

Implied as speaking for the majority though, and I'm not convinced those opposed to the idea of paid mods were EVER in the majority. So while not speaking for "Everyone" it was certainly implied as speaking for more than the evidence supports.

You do not know how many are for or against paid mods and which one was in the majority or maybe it was 50/50 with no side having the majority. None of us know how many were for it or against it or were impartial or does not care about it all since they do not use mods at all.

You attest that one reason for not accepting donations is because an author prefers to keep modding as a hobby, because money would fundamentally alter the relationship between the author and users. By your use of "many," you've implied that a large section of authors share this viewpoint. However, there are many reasons why an author might not have a donation button: they might feel that they would be harassed for having it after the paid mods fiasco last year, they might not have a PayPal account, they might think that they make enough money and would prefer that donations be left to those in unknown financial situations, or, because the donation button was added comparatively recently, they might be retired and never had the opportunity to consider it.

I suggested that you speak for yourself rather than make blanket statements because, by asserting that a sizable portion of mod authors create for self-fulfillment or expressionistic purposes, the necessary corollary is that some other portion creates for mercenary reasons. This sort of thinking can only create a schism. Self-expression and payment are not, nor have ever been, mutually exclusive -- painters and composers of old had patrons because art and music are luxuries, and payment was the exchange to indulge in their beauty. Would anyone dare say that a photographic exhibition should not charge for entry because the exhibit consists of mere "pictures"? Because anyone is able to do something does not mean that they will or want to or do so with the skill of an experienced photographer, artisan, or even modder.

This is not to say that modders need live by modding -- many do consider it a diversion rather than a livelihood. But the suggestion that refusing donations is morally righteous or somehow "purer" than accepting them is nothing but snobbery.

I can make a reasonable guess based on the number of buyers I had during the paid mods thing - it was orders of magnitude more than the same small number of people who were raising opposition then, who are oddly still the same small group of people now.

The silent majority and all that. Just because you didn't hear from them doesn't mean they weren't out there in large numbers, quietly content to pay for things they thought were worth the money.

Plus it's a fallacy to say that someone with no opinion doesn't count. That's not how opposition base polling works

Let's try to stay on topic: my question has NOTHING to do with paid mods. Please don't drag that problem into this.

I'm only asking about donations - which do not, by any stretch of the imagination, obligate a mod author to do anything. Donations are voluntary (obviously) and, I believe, are an expression of thanks. Why would a mod author shirk them?

There are people that want paid mods and there are people that do not want them. I do not care if there are paid mods or not since I am using less and less mods and quite often prefer not using them at all.

[edit]

Sorry.

Maybe tax issues and needing to report it to IRS (Or government equivalent) depending on the income that donation might bump them to a higher tax bracket and that $50 donation might cost them to pay a higher tax rate and maybe other surtaxes. I know when I was growing up my Dad got a $1000 Christmas bonus and it wound up costing him more than $1000 in higher taxes and surtaxes since it just bumped his income by a few dollars. My Dad was not happy when he was doing the taxes. I do not remember how much more it was since I was only about 5 years old at the time and I just remember my Dad Swearing in German (The only other time I heard him swear was when watching the Blue Jays and the relieve pitcher Jeff Musselman was pitching)

[edit]

I meant Ron Musselman

I understand - and kind of guessed that this type of complication would be a nuisance which motivates authors to avoid collecting donations. It's certainly a real consideration in the US - I have no idea about the rest of the world.

I don't think you can really seperate the two issues very well. I know of several mod authors -- is that a more politically correct term than "many" -- who were very opposed to paid mods and have since removed the donate button from their nexus page just to make their position on the issue very clear.


I can't remember if I removed the button from my mods, but I don't have a paypal account and don't want donations. For me it's a hobby, like Pseron said, so I don't really want donations. I'd much prefer constructive feedback.

Pseron Wyrd gave you some of the the reasons quite a few of us don't have donations enabled. Erzherzoghans gave another. Some simply don't want to bother setting up the accounts needed to receive payments when we expect the values received will be minimal. Another (and probably the largest) group just hasn't even noticed the feature.

The topic of donations unfortunately has become linked to the paid mods fiasco. As you've already seen here, attempts to explain why some of us don't want donations now get interpreted as attacks against those who do. Feelings are still raw on both sides so it would be best to take the examples we've provided and just accept that everyone is different in how they approach the topic.

You could ask individual authors, but frankly some get tired of being asked. So if you do, at least include a few comments about what you like about the mods and don't just say "I can't find your donate link."

I see modding as this huge interconnected web of ideas, skill, knowledge, and the mods themselves of course. I see paid modding as one of the greatest threats to modding because as soon as payment becomes mandatory, or expected, or the baseline, that web gets obliterated.

The mostly holistic Collaboration we enjoy (and benefit from) now disappears. How many new modders will we preemptively cull or turn away because the entry barrier is a steep learning curve behind a paywall? One of the best ways to learn is to deconstruct features you wish to emulate or re-purpose. Once mod content becomes monetized mod authors are heavily incentivized to obfuscate all their techniques and source code. Without new modders or widespread collaboration the "web" stagnates, breaks down, then dies. Basically once begun we enter a negative feedback loop resulting in self-destruction. At that point it's entirely possible for the absence of the modding scene to be reflected in sales, thus potentially compromising the future of the franchise.

We cannot begin to understand the influence even one new modder can have on the entire scene (or what other skills they may be bringing to the table). How many times do you think someone's "Help" post (even if unfinished or unresolved) has eventually contributed to a solution for someone else? I've been modding for years now and it happens to me all the time.

I agree.

The argument against paid modding is based on a fallacy - that paid mods necessitate the end of free mods. EVERY argument I ever see brought forth against it is based on this. No such thing is going to happen and that's why a large portion of people no longer buy into the bogus arguments put forth last year. It was scaremongering then, and it's scaremongering now.

Same with the argument that mysteriously all collaboration would cease.

Anyway, the topic is supposed to be about donations which are entirely voluntary etc. Not doom and gloom prophecies that won't come to pass

On the advice of someone whose opinion I value I have changed in my post two instances of the word "many" to the more politically correct word "several."

Changing "many" to "several" is not a change made for the purpose of political correctness. Political correctness is a derisive term referring to abstaining from using a term out of fear of offending, which would require me to be offended by your use of "many." I am not; I protested the use of the term as a matter of clarity and certainty.