Ok Few questions on Talos, He is a human nord that foundd the empire and throught severall things he manages to conquer the whole of Tameriel with the help of an artifact ...

now how he becomes a God? and wasn't he faulty of having betrayed his former king and friends? so how could he?

Because the Divines decided it should be that way?

Magic.

Really short version:

We start with http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth. Lorkhan was the god who convinced the other Aedra to create the mortal plane by sacrificing parts of themselves. The mortal plane didn't turn out to be as advertised. For this Lorkhan had his heart ripped out and was imprisoned in his own mortal plane. After this, the gods died or left Mundus, leaving behind only those parts that they sacrificed.

Because of this it's been said that the Aedra are lairs and deceivers. Rightfully so, they lie about their own existence. The funny thing about Tamriel is that such believes shapes the sacrificed parts of the gods.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-light-and-dark describes the proto-idea and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire enumerates the results. You'll notice that different cultures give a different view on roughly the same eight gods.

Tiber Septim became a god just so. If you read the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-arcturian-heresy you'll know Ysmir and Tiber Septim were pretending to be one person. As a result when people think of Ysmir - Shors incarnation,- they think of Tiber Septim. This thought shapes the divines and is what makes Talos, that is Tiber Septim, divine by association with Ysmir. The deceit doesn't lessen this, it is the underpinning of his divinity.

It is to "walk like them until they must walk like you." as http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-hatta-sphinxmoth-inquiry-tree puts it.

Thanks .. how bout the long one? I can't understand really how is made a God , why , and by what means .... or was he already a avatar of a God?

No... The way I understand it is this:

He was friends with a god, who pretended to be him at times, and he pretended to be the God. Eventually those two became mixed up and Talos became a God, simply because people believed him to be one...

A wizard did it.

I think I covered all those already. Could you perhaps explain what you think is the case? Or what you don't understand. For example, what is the nature of the gods, what is a god?



Sounds about right. The term for this all is manteling if you want to search for it. And going by the light and dark, it's not just people who may or may not believe, but rather the world.

Ok so Talos is not a God but is believed to be so , then why the shrine of talos and the amulet grant powers and blessings?

Belief=Power. He achieved his status through mantling. He is a God because they believe he is one, hence why the Thalmor want him stamped out by banning his worship.

It's the same concept as shivering isles. If you act, smell, look, exist like a god, who can tell the difference? Eventually you become that god.

Talos came about by mimicking the events that happened to Lorkhan until you could no longer tell the difference between them.

To say that belief is power is perhaps a little too simple though. It implies a consensual reality, which is not the case.

I know, but I feel that the OP was confused on the subject and putting it in such a way would sort of let them get a grasp of the bigger picture.

Iam still confused tough , is a God or Not a God? grants powers or not ? is alive somehow or not? what with the Wulf incarnation then in morrowind? Seems to me that he is really an ascended God , and I just need to understand how he did... and if the Thalos also have taken so much care to forbid this cult then there must be a reason and the reason I find is that is really a God why would they care to forbid such thing in not their lands if wasn't like so?

He is really a God, and he can really grant power. He can do this because people or the world believe him to be so. Without that believe he would no longer have the power, and no longer be a God. That's why the Thalmor want to wipe out Talos worship. Destroy his worship, you destroy his power, you destroy his divinity and thus make him nothing more then any other random person...

Ok so just to be clear in ES lore worshippping someone gives himmana to be a God? or needs a device or a spell a rythual or whatever? feels weird anyway .... Anyone then can be a God if worshipped?

Essentially, yes, but you have to be a god to even be worshiped in the first place. The worship just adds mythopoeic significance, the power of a god can be attained without it.

Ok so in final , Talos is a true God , exhists not as myth but as a true ascended God , now the question is , how did he ascend?

By walking like Ysmer (Shor/Lorkhan) until Ysmer was forced to walk like him. Also known as http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-hatta-sphinxmoth-inquiry-tree:

Imagine you're outside time; that the universe looks to you like some sort of loose colorful weave. You reach into the universe, and extend yourself backwards. It would look to anyone inside the universe, and to you yourself that you are in time before the point of junction, that this part of yourself that you extended became a god. But he, or you, did not become god: you always were. What's more, before junction, you never existed, whereas afterwards, you always did. I hope that you can understand this, because I barely did, or that someone more eloquent might know and explain me better.

I thought I covered all this pretty well with "magic".

This is for the Dunmer traditions and from the Vivec sermons if not mistaken so it shoudl show something like reaching an illumination and path top heaven or santitude not really becoming a God ... no?



This is too complicated didn't make much sense to me ...




this explains nothing sorry ...



I want to know ... let's imagine you are Talos ok you conquered the world , you are bout to Die .. what you do now to become a God? Just beeing honoured and worshipped like a Caesarian emperor cult of ancient rome? this woduln't make much sense as then all the emperor's could be considered Gods as well if granted a statue and someone to worship them ....

Could the numidium be anyway involved and the thing that was needed to make it work?

Implies that Talos was also a magician?

Something with a nultimate arcane voice yell from the dragon tongue? Bue then he wasn't able to use anymore in the later days no?

so what He did actually do to obtain that Godhood?


The last thing I could think of is a Divine intervention of all the other 8 Gods , pleased of him they made him a God , sort of like what happened to the Son of Zeus Eracles ...

The principle works in general. You might say that Vivec has some expert knowledge.

Perhaps a parallel would help.

James Bond. When I say that name, are you thinking of Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, or Daniel Craig? They've all been acting the part and many people think of one specific actor as the real James Bond.

Now imagine a world where such thought matter. Imagine a world were acting like something makes you that thing in other aspects. It's basic magical thinking really, think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult.

The how and why are not so easy to explain, that understanding comes from trying to make sense of it all but let's presume the world works that way.

Now if you do this, act like James Bond, you become indistinguishable from James Bond, if you do it long enough people, or rather the world, will expect James Bond to behave like you. At this point you've become James Bond and it is no longer an act.

Manteling works in the same fashion.

Now you've mentioned Zurin Arctus a few time but he's not quite that relevant to Tiber manteling Ysmir. Rather he's part of a recurrent mythic story, a story that resembles a larger story and thus gives it's participants the same significance as the original actors in this story. The actors in this story are called the Enantiomorph and are typically reflections of Lorkhan and Akatosh. Or at a cosmic scale Anu and Padomay. There is also a small supporting cast, a love interest, a witness struck blind and a few others I can't recall.

Op, what is your definition of god? There's not much of a difference in ascending, and being called a god, depending on who you ask. Manteling, could be called either in the end.

Sorry but still no solid answer ..... I need this for an eventual possible quest around Talos ascension and I can't use phylosopchilal speculations ...