I would not mind spears if they had different attacks with them, like lunging and maybe even having the option of throwing them. If they work like they did in morrowind, I would have to say no.

Thanks! Valkyries were accompanied to the battlefield by ravens.

Halberds have been depicted in some of the concept art.

~ Dani ~

While I don't agree with your philosophy of consolidation it does have some merits. Improvements were made but to me the consolidation was an act of streamlining for ease. In essence it actually is cutting from the game. Rather than improve something that is flawed make it "appear" that it was a complete and sole improvement. I would rather add more and "flesh" out the experience. Consolidating the skills down to 18 to add the likes of "farming", "woodcutting", and "smithing" may sound like an improvement. But what if "time and budget" make it a rip-off of Fable series. We see how well that has turned out.

The same could be said of spears. To me the point of exploits is moot. It is a single player experience and frankly I don't give a damn what people do on their own time. Many people like spears and I think it is a shame that they are being excluded. If the true purpose of removing them is for exploits (Honestly I think it was left out due to the way the "perk trees" are set up) then the problem should be fixed not cut out entirely.

I worded that wrong; I mean to say that I was disappointed that they weren't in Oblivion, and disliked the spears themselves in Morrowind.

And Odin had his two ravens Mugin and I think it was Hugin?

You have links for halberd concept art? Please say yes!

the number of mods for spears has no indication on how popular they are, the fact that there were not hundreds of spear mods actually shows that those few were well done enough that the people who wanted spears were not disapointed enough to try and make more spear mods. so...

what are you talking about, there were like seven skills cut. and just because they appeared in the most minimal sense possible doesn't mean you can claim that the content remained as full as it was previously. example, enchantment, just having one enchanting lecturn is a damn pathetic excuse for a replacement of the enchanting skill.

btw, in what way were spears exploitable, the only plus they had was a bit longer range than most weapons but not more than a claymore, they actual damage were mid leveled and if we want to talk about over powered why don't we talk about daedric claymores which were more obtainable than the most powerful spears. (via summoning a dremora and killing it for its weapon)

The content available in OB is very debatable. Every dungeon was a rehash of anothe dungeon. The dialogue wasn't exactly the greatest either. I would rather have the "information kiosks" of MW than the boring antics of the OB NPC's. Thankfully they have a solid team working on the dungeons for V and hopefully the npc's will have better actions if not more dialogue.

IMO - OB had more but it was generically bland and all the same after a few hours. MW had a more unique atmoshpere with a little less content. Hopefully the talent shines through and a balance is found between the two with a better experience for everyone.

Yes, that's true. Ravens were popular on Norse mythology.

And, yes, I do have http://darklythroughglass.blogspot.com/2011/01/skyrim-concept-art.html Look at the female Redguard.

~ Dani ~

Ah yes, the weapon is very faint, but it is there. The "Executioner"'s axe looks like the haft is a lot longer than a common battle axe. Thanks for the link!

Well TES is definitely not coming anywhere near being fable at all, people fear this way too much only because it's "another medieval style fantasy RPG". Consolidating skills is pretty much reached it's end with this game, next TES game I would stake my life that we don't lose any skills, in fact we might game some. Right now they are putting things in their rightful place like puzzle pieces. I really don't see what people don't like about 18 skills, it's still innumerable skill combinations, that means innumerable different characters, not to mention the new leveling system could make 18 skills be more like 50 skills in one of the other games for all we know. Plus, people forget to integrate in perks, which perks basically reinstates Morrowind's individual weapon skills again, yet no one wants to correlate the new leveling system with perks in combination with the 18 skills, if they did they would realize there is more content there then in Morrowind's skill set and probably Daggerfall's as well. People just overreact when they see a number lower than the previous game instead of giving it a chance. That is why so many people hate Oblivion because they were spending all their time playing Oblivion trying to compare the game with Morrowind and then getting angry when they don't see a feature that was in Morrowind instead of enjoying it for what it was and seeing that Oblivion was actually more enjoyable than Morrowind. Can't really have happy memories of Oblivion if all your memories of the game was about anolyzing the game while you played it. Nostalgia got in the way of so many people and they need to take the goggles off and wait until after they finish the entire game before they compare, makes for a much better game experience imo.



Unfortunately I cannot agree with you on spears. It doesn't matter if it's single player or multiplayer, people miss this all the time. It's a flaw in the game and it must be removed. It's not about offending other people or letting people become overpowered gods when it doesn't fit in the game, it's all about it being a flaw in the game and no game developer will allow it to stay. There is a reason most games nowadays don't have cheat codes, it's because the base difficulty has been lowered to pretty easy. If you think about all the games back in the day, they were hard as hell and the reason they had cheat codes is for the people that didn't have the patience to play it through on their own. Over the years, games got easier and they didn't need cheat codes anymore and instead added in difficulty settings to challenge those that want a difficult game. The devs and many other people don't want unintended "cheat codes" in the game, regardless of the number of players because it's a blemish on the game.

Mainly, I see people say "you didn't have to cut this or that, just fix it" but they don't realize that it requires precious development time to figure out how to fix it then implement it then test to see if it's balanced and so on. Then after your finished balancing that, then you have to try to balance the other myriad of exploits that was in Morrowind and then it detracts from the rest of the game. People need to realize there were many things that had to be left out of Oblivion because of time constraints of making a game for a console that didn't exist yet. Yes, it was a little short on some features but it doesn't make it indicative of where the series is going, as we have seen with the current info about Skyrim and there is definitely more to come. There is just as many features so far that we know of about Skyrim as there was in Morrowind. Oblivion just had an issue with a major time constraint issue and technology constraints and it still ended out being the second best TES game.

Hmmm. You sure that is a redguard? The helment is very pointy where the ears should be :biggrin:

my eyes literally bulged in their sockets at that last part. MW had a little less content? more like OB did even have half the content. you are aware that there were twice as much weapons, armor, clothes. the map was significantly larger and there was over twice as many quests not to mention hundreds of hand placed special loot content.

btw the reason every dungeon looked like a rehash was because they used static chunks of dungeon parts, which they put to gether to make the dungeon. the dungeons in MWhad the same issue (if you'd call it an issue, the difference is that OB was targeted to bring more of the casual gaming crowd into the TES series and they are far less forgiving about the visual astetics of the game. after all, they care less if the game has unique content as much as they care that it has the best graphics possible, never mind they are buying the same game over and over again.

It's not really a big deal. It's just as easy to find other weapons to vanquish your foes with.

Oblivion had more content than Morrowind. Also, people always talk about how Oblivion's dungeons are just generic rehashes of each other but no one points out Morrowind's was the same. If you've seen one Dunmer tomb, you've seen them all. Another thing I see people say is that there wasn't much variation between environments in Oblivion, which is actually better. There are 7 different zones and they are pretty different but in more of a subtle transition. Morrowind had unrealistic environment differentiation. Also, the "hundreds of hand placed special loot content" wasn't that impressive. Most of those items were mediocre at best and just reskins, so they weren't really special.

I really don't get where people get that Oblivion was targeted toward casual players when it was actually more difficult and had more complicated quests overall. Oh well, I'm done with the Oblivion vs. Morrowind conversation, you'll stick with your decision and I'll stick with mine.

Here have a Percocet and calm down <_< . I was out of context in referring to how much MW contained vs. OB. Yes I was aware of the issues of OB dungeons. OB "felt" larger than what is really was. MW had a deep atmosphere and honestly I think it felt larger than what it was. I am not reffering to landmass or gameplay content. Again to me it's the "atmosphere and the "little things" that made me enjoy MW more than OB

[
I really don't get where people get that Oblivion was targeted toward casual players when it was actually more difficult and had more complicated quests overall. Oh well, I'm done with the Oblivion vs. Morrowind conversation, you'll stick with your decision and I'll stick with mine.
[/quote]


Agreed. On to a better game. Hope your right about the perks in V. It's gonna drive me up the wall if most of them are hidden modifiers.

Not sure how you can say it wasn't geared towards the casual when there was a giant arrow directing your every move....

And yes if you must know I almost always turned the arrow off... but seriously...

"Also, people always talk about how Oblivion's dungeons are just generic rehashes of each other but no one points out Morrowind's was the same. If you've seen one Dunmer tomb, you've seen them all."
thats basicly what I said, which makes me wonder how creating our own dungeons will be like using the kit since they say that all the dungeons in SK will now be handmade and unique. if we can even make them at all.

I know your going to stick with what you believe, but I am just going to point out (to the benefit of every one on the forum that does not have CS) that if you open the construction set for MW and OB side by side you will see that MW has way more content than OB.

the part about quests being harder, etc, is a matter of perspective so I'll only say I disagree completely.

most importantly its irrelevent how mediocre most of the hand placed content the point is that there is vastly more of it than in OB and there fore more options and more people with differing tastes can be pleased. and over a dozen of the hand placed items were actually pretty BA looking. its better than having an array of statistics oriented weapons but they all look the same like in Borderlands.

because no matter how much more stuff Bethesda puts in or any game in that manner, people will always complain because they didn't get what they want, and they will talk and complain about it until they get there way. I say Bravo to Todd for not caving in and giving into the complainer's demands.

I didn't like the magic compass and I hope it's gone this time around (however I hope there are still quest marker to show where the general location of where you need to go is but not point out your objective in the dungeon). However, the magic compass didn't make the game easier, it just shaved off time from your game time. But if you think about it, even with the magic compass and fast travel, the overall play time is about the same as Morrowind's, what does that say?

I just hope to god that the magic compass is gone from Skyrim (which it seems it is with the fading UI but we can't be sure yet)



:goodjob: Here, here!



Sure, it had more hand placed items, but Oblivion had more items, thus more options. In Oblivion it was randomly generated.

Also, I'll change the wording from "harder quests" to more complicated quests, that way it's less of a matter of opinion (though still slightly). Most of the quests in Morrowind were just go here and fetch this or go here and kill this. But if you look at Oblivion's side quests, most of them are like "Do all of these elaborate things to make these Khajiit think it's the apocalypse or search this castle and question these people for clues to who stole this painting and then decide to give them up or not or go into this manor and pretend your a guest and then secretly kill each guest one by one and then turn the last two people against each other so that they murder the other one and then kill the last one when he thinks your safe. I mean, Oblivion's side quests were so much deeper and elaborate. I'll give Morrowind that it had the best main story but it really falls short in almost every other aspect. Of course that's my opinion.

That's about as far into this argument I'm willing to go. Comparing Oblivion to Morrowind is a ridiculous argument in my opinion. Any flaws people point out about them are complete nitpicking... (yes even ones I talk about)

I loved both games, it's really as simple as that.

Spears were in Morrowind, then they were unjustfully just REMOVED from Oblivion, along with many other great things like throwing weapons and crossbows and all kinds of neat stuff.

People want those favourite weapons of theirs back (even if we all know nobody really used any of these weapons much except for maybe crossbows, and thrown weapons when they ran out of ammo.)

*sigh* at least they aren't going to take my beloved Dai-Katana away from me :wub:

This.

You probably http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Lusty_Argonian_Maid