Hey everyone, I know that Talos ascended to becoming an Aedra. but is it possible for another mortal to become one? Also, if there is, how would they do it?

(Asking this because I am creating a character that I don't want to be a Daedra, but an Aedra. )

No

Are you sure? If Talos ascended, you would think that others could do the same, but it would be harder.

Talos isn't an Aedra. He... crap, is it enantiomorph or mantelling? Anyway, an Aedra is one of the et'ada that got tricked persuaded by Lorkhan into making the world. They're, like, a totally different different kind of being - totally different, it's like trying to make arthropod into a mammal. Likewise, you can't really become a Daedric Prince, but you can sort of mimic one enough and by doing so also get its powers. It's complicated! :bolt:

So, Talos mimicked the actions of some of the Aedra. And in TES, "you walk like them until they walk like you" - by replaying these ancient stories (ripped-out hearts, betrayal, etc.) you actually start to sort of get the same powers and stuff.

I just totally gave a butchered explanation, my apologies to the Lore Buffs for my hackneyed explanation. :sadvaultboy:

EDIT: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1092773-mantled-by-way-of-the-fourth/ and then using the forum search for enantiomorph and manteling.

I'm pretty sure with Sheogorath, the CoC did become the prince himself. Notice how the realm of SI suddenly went back to being SI again upon Jyggy's defeat. Remember, the prince is the realm, and the realm is the prince. However, Sheogorath is a very special case.

But you are right Talos is not an aedra. In order to be an aedra, you had to have been one of the original spirits (et'Ada) that gave a part of itself up to create Mundus. Talos didn't, he only ascended into godhood by mimicking events from the past, in this case the one about Akatosh-Lorkhan. Also to note, Talos is only a replacement for Shezarr (the Cyrodiil Lorkhan, who is revered by the Cyrodiils).

Also, do not buy into the mer's view that the aedra were tricked. The mer are so full of themselves, they make the people in San Fransisco, in that South Park episode, look like one of the most humble people in the world.

So basically, to be an Aedra, I would need to roleplay as one of the Eight Divines? Also, I'm confused. Did Lorkhan actually help create Mundus or not?

Yes and no. They're the same characters (the Aedra and Eight Divines), but they're played by different actors from different cultures.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire


Lorkhan helps in every myth, but the Elder myths typically despise him.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth

That's what I'm saying, if I wanted to be an Aedra, I'd need to play as an avatar of whatever Divine I want, right?

If you role play an Aedra, the Aedra is going to be perceived differently than one of the Eight Divines. You need to chose: Divine or Aedra.

If you're really attached to the idea, you could roleplay as a lesser Magna Ge, an Aedra that did indeed participate in creation, but left to Aetherius during the Convention at the end of the Dawn era. You'd need a VERY compelling reason to have the character return though. If you want us to help you come up with that, state which game you're playing.

So if the prince is his realm, you could throw shovelfuls of dirt through an oblivion gate until there's enough Dagon in Nirn to manifest? Or you could take the dirt to another realm and have Dagon argue with Molag Bal?

I suppose also with the "Prince is their sphere" kind of thing going around that throwing a Molag Bal rock from his realm at someone would [censored] them on impact. Or since Azura is the sphere of dusk and dawn, you shift the world to dusk or dawn when you throw enough of him around. You could make some very interesting grenades with these princes.

Talos (tiber septim and some other people) mantled an Aedra by the fourth walking way. they/he/it mantled Reman, who had mantled Shezzar, the Imperial version of Lorkhan. The fourth walking way is basicly doing things so similar to the Et' ada you are trying to mantle that finally the worshipers who give that et'ada existence begin to worship you as them.

If you want to become a new Et' ada, This is also possible. The Dwemer succeeded in this be becoming Numidium, which has eternal life (the seige of firsthold is never-ending, although it was won. There are a few ways to escape death, called the walking ways.

1) The Prolix Tower: would work to make you an Et'ada. It is the goal of all the TOwers elves build. This path, however, mayor may not include exterminating all humans and forgetting that they ever existed, so preventing them from ever being remade in a future Kalpa.

2) The Psijic Endeavor: (NOT QUITE SURE ABOUT THIS)Using Existing magic/soul material to add onto yours to become an Et' Ada. Basically what the Tribunal did to Shor's heart. Similar to the Numidium.

3) The Numidium: Would also work. Basically combine all the separated souls of one of the Et'ada that gave themselves entirely to creation in one uber-soul, and it will become an Et' ada again.

4) Mantling: basically becoming something that already exists.

5) CHIM : you realise that you are part of the godhead, but also that your part is different from another part. Thus you can minipulate the Godhead (reality.) Wouldn't make you an Et' ada, however.

6) Scarab that transforms into the New Man: wouldn't work. Basically makes you the Godhead (I think) and thus destroys the purpose of becoming an Et'ada because you are the thing that is dreaming the dream that Et' Ada are part of.

5) CHIM : you realise that you are part of the godhead, but also that your part is different from another part. Thus you can minipulate the Godhead (reality.) Wouldn't make you an Et' ada, however.

6) Scarab that transforms into the New Man: wouldn't work. Basically makes you the Godhead (I think) and thus destroys the purpose of becoming an Et'ada because you are the thing that is dreaming the dream that Et' Ada are part of.

Wait so the Aedra weren't tricked in the creation of Mundus?

Who's Aedra, those of Men (minus the Imperials who managed to take a stand against Shor but not against Ysmir) were not tricked, but those of Mer were.

I am currently using this roleplay on Oblivion. (My character in Morrowind is the Neravarine, but he became corrupted, and killed Vivec, and he also now rules Vvardenfell through fear. ) I will need help on how to keep it lore-friendly, if you know what I mean. lol

I'm curious; could men and mer be considered bottom-subgradient Aedra?

Aren't they sometimes referred to as "the final sub gradient?"

Or something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hH8fx4hEg


Mer do, specifically altmer. This is also a reason why they're really pissed off about Mundus, and want to move back up by going backwards. Redguards have a similar feeling too, but they don't put Akatosh on a pedestal.

You have to ask yourself though, what is a Daedroth? The creation of the Daedra is fuzzy on most accounts, and certain Daedric Princes don't seem to fit the mold (e.g. Meridia, Sheogorath, Malacath).

If Talos is a replacement for Shezzar, (as in he takes Lorkhan's spot "in the sky" that he lost when his heart was ripped out) why do Shezzarines still pop up on Nirn? In fact, how would he become Lorkhan at all? The key events Shezzarines reenact are:

-Tricking others
-Getting betrayed
-Getting de-hearted

Now Tiber was definitely on par with the best of them as far as manipulation goes, but I can't think of any situations where he was betrayed by those he manipulated, other than the instance of his throat being slit and almost dying. Even then, it wasn't as much of him being betrayed but instead more of a political assassination. By the way, how did he ascend? It was at Sancre Tor, correct? It would have to have been after his joy ride with Numidium too, I suppose. What too, was the fulcrum he used to propel himself upwards?

Either he betrayed Zurin Arctus and de-hearted Wulfhart, or was betrayed by Zurin de-hearted Zurin.

I don't see how he betrayed Zurin, I just saw Zurin as a casualty of the attack on the Underking.

Daedra are essentially Aldmeri creations, coutering the Elder view, the Velothi called the Daedra their ancestors.

Tiber completed the Enantiomorph and ascended to the center of the Wheel with Numidium. Compare the event with the Convention, where Numidium is the echo of Ur-tower, Tiber embodying both the Dragon and the Missing god.

The Altmer think they're the center of everything. The Velothi, on the other hand, give me the impression of being misinformed (I wouldn't put it past the Daedra to make stuff up to net themselves mortal worshippers), given what Eno Romari said.

Yes. The opinion isn't only Eno's. The Chimer became disillusioned with the Daedra for their severity and distance. I don't believe Daedra just "make stuff up." When they're being deceitful, they're twisting truth, not fabricating it.

Nobody has the whole truth, is the point.

I have an idea that could follow some lore. I can be Sheogorath. If I am the Daedric Prince, I could try to kill Talos or Akatosh, and replace them just like Talos replaced Lorkhan. What do you guys think of that idea?