That would require proof cause I haven't heard of that.

But yeah I would suggest giving Tactics a try incase you were going to change your mind about playing it.

It's Bethesda. You're suppose to accept their poor writing that rips off the plot of other games that ends up not making sense in any possible logical way.

Well, I remember a dev in an interview saying basically that...

"Unless we say otherwise, every game we make and piece of DLC for it is cannon."

What's so bothering about Mothership Zeta being cannon?

Well if fallout 1 lore is to be believed, those from vaults have a higher chance of becoming "true" super mutants. Intelligent and cunning. However in fallout three someone took an epic poop on this this and they became the idiotic super mutants, with the exception of fawkes.

And here we are again:

Interpreting one line of a holdisc in the worst manner ever is as it seems the most fun for some people. No sorry people MZ never stated your beloved interpretation that the Aliens started the great war. That's simply your phantasy that is doing this.

About canon: No Bethesda never stated somewhere that MZ is canon. Please proof me otherwise. Bethesda (also in TES) always avoids the canon question (which is a bit sad for the Fallout franchise, but it is a fact). You can see in the next game (partly in NV) what is meant as canon in FO3. That is how it's managed in TES too.

It was from the start meant (look at the advertising) as a humorus parody of good/bad old 50's sf movies. Who can't see this and think MZ is a lore bible has a problem imo.. (btw. I think the same about OWB sadly is the humor there pretty cheap).

I really didn't want to get into it yet again.

Fallout is about humanity, not aliens.

The crashed UFO and other related things in the first two Fallout games were easter eggs, not intended to be taken seriously. So the idea that Bethesda took them and said "hey lets make a whole DLC about it" is very annoying. Why not make one about Dr. Who and Star Tek while you're at it because they were in the first games as well.

Mothership Zeta implies that aliens could have something to do with the Great War. I know people argue that it doesn't imply that simply because the aliens were trying to get the nuclear launch codes doesn't mean they used them, but I disagree. It was there and the implication is more then enough. It now introduces the question "did they really have something to do with it?" They have been clearly watching us for hundreds if not thousands of years. So they are involved somehow. Again that takes away from Fallout being about humanity. "War. War never changes" reflects how humanity never changes, we keep going to war for the same damn reasons all the time. We destroyed the Earth and yet we go to war with one another, we just don't learn. You throw aliens into that mix, then that does change things. It means the Great War might not have been our fault at all. That is wasn't a result of our nature, but of an outside force.

There's also the idea that there is now a giant alien mothership above Washington DC with a little 200 year old girl controling it, complete with giant deathray. There's also making the Lone Wanderer join the BoS. There's no reason to believe the LW wouldn't later tell the BoS about it or that the BoS would discover it on their own using the beacon. Imagine the Lyons BoS with their own alien mothership.. pretty much a game changer, a series changer.

We also know there is more than one Mothership, we could be in the middle of a galaxy wide civil war for all we know. I don't want Fallout becoming "Fallout: War of the Worlds" or "Fallout: Resistance."

Sorry, did I ever say anything about a holodisc? No. I just find Mothership Zeta to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in a Fallout game.

Just because people in the 1950s had a thing for aliens doesn't mean anything in 1950s should be in Fallout.

There is a reason why the devs added Special Random Encounters in Fallout. To put things in the game for fun that wouldn't really work if they were taken as part of the game. They are nods to pop culture and science fiction.

I am not against aliens in Fallout. I have noticed that alot of people who don't like Mothership Zeta aren't against aliens in Fallout in a small benign mysterious way. Like the UFO report in Fallout 3, I think it is in one of the Citadel computers, that is a great way to include things like Aliens. It's right out of project blue book. Just like any UFO report, we can't say "this is clearly proof of aliens" but we can say "It does seem like a serious report, maybe there is something to it."

Mystery, in the shadows "I want to believe" is how aliens should be handled in Fallout. Mothership Zeta was not the way to handle it, not even close. It just ruins things and if they continue it, then Fallout will be ruined forever.

Again it isn't that aliens themselves are the problem. It is how MZ handled them that is the problem

For me this was the "humor" in OWB.

Personal opinions differ, I suppose. To me, unless the developer states otherwise, everything is canon. Also, MZ never said that the aliens started the Great War. It simply said that one soldier thought they were after launch codes, or something along those lines.

It shouldn't be implying it

It's the implication. He was being forced to give code. The aliens weren't rooting around in his head for his Grandmother's Chocolate Chip recipe.

The other people were either experimented on or were simply beaten to talk about anything, anything at all. The guy on the tape about the Code was being forced to talk about a spacific topic in a way that involved something more effective then pocking him with shock sticks.

But it goes beyond the code. The aliens have been involved with Earth for hundreds if not thousands of years. What role did they play then? What were they doing all that time besides watching us? Why were they watching us?

We know there's more of them out there and they are fighting one another. There's no reason they won't be back. Do you really want them back? Do you want them involved in the Fallout Universe in a major way? Cause they are by far the most advanced and poweful group out there if they are made canon.

There's also the fact that there would be a an alien Mothership above DC that the BoS would have easy access to. Do you really want Lyons BoS having access to an Alien Mothership loaded with alien tech and weapons and a deathray?

People who defend MZ for the most part act like it was a one off event "not like they would do it again." Why wouldn't Bethesda keep going with it if they made it canon. There's clearly more they could do with it if they wanted.

Do people really want "Fallout: War of the World" or "Fallout: Resistance." To pick sides in some alien civil war?

Deep questions, very deep questions. That a bad 50's SF movie simply don't asks. Even if they make a part II of "Aliens abducted my Frankensteins bride". As I said it isn't a lore bible.

I fail to see the comparison.

The most redicolus thing (in a negative way) I have seen in a Fallout game that I take serious.

So to you Fallout is just a game spoof of bad 1950s SF movies?

Things can be made none canon. It has been done before with Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. It can be done again. There is nothing good that can come from MZ. It can only hurt Fallout and it does hurt Fallout.

As I said before it isn't aliens that are the problem. It's how they were handled in MZ. Over the top in everyway possible. It should just be declared a "for fun DLC."

I would gladly have OWBs thrown into "just for fun not canon DLC" if it meant MZ would as well.

It's in the lore so I don't get your point?Bethesda never stated it was non-canon.

OWB is not rediculous in the same way that MSZ is. Its silly vs insane.

Old World Blues was perfectly canon. I don't see why everything humorous must automatically become non-canon.

Because floating jars filled with the brains of former scientists battling against an evil doctor in a giant crater against robotic animals and humans who have had their brains removed isn't crazy in the slightest? I'm not saying either should be considered non-canon, but to call OWB not crazy is silly.

I see nothing wrong with Old World Blues, but pretty much all the people who defend MZ say "Well OWB is just as bad."

So what I was getting at is that if there was some hypothetical meeting/deal to be made about what is and what isn't canon I would be willing to sacrifice OWBs if it meant saving Fallout from MZ because MZ is just so bad and very harmful to Fallout.

The only defence to Mothership Zeta is "It was made so deal with it. I know it completely [censored]s Fallout and will ruin it, but it was made so there!"

What kind of argument is that?

Bethesda also didn't stated it is canon. Again I explained there canon policy in my initial post. If Fallout 4 states a big spaceship is hovering over Washington DC then you can say it's canon. This discussion is so old as Fallout 2.

The problem here is simply not giving place for humor and taking everything as serious and influencing the franchise forever. Sorry if the next Fallout game from whoever includes scientists who make [censored] jokes and hovering UFOs above washington then sorry I play the same game as you and don't buy it anymore. Which doesn't mean Fallout is dead btw. (as some people like to say). I am pretty sure this won't happen and if you are unable to see that this is notheing different then for example !!!real!!! ghosts (not a random encounter, real quest, so "canon") in Fallout 2. Then it's sad.

It isn't a joke. Having aliens involved in Fallout and all that goes way beyond joke. "Why did the Chicken Cross the Road" is a joke. Aliens fighting to take over the Wasteland isn't a joke it is a nightmare.

The humor in OWB might not be in everyones tastes but it doesn't ruin Fallout. It doesn't fundamentality change the very nature of Fallout in the way MZ does.

You're argument is essentially that Fallout should be treated as nothing but a spoof of bad 1950s science fiction. That you know MZ is harmful but "hey it was made so deal with it."

A ghost in Fallout 2 isn't as harmful as aliens with MZs attacking the earth.

Again not everything made about Fallout is considered canon and nor should it. Fallout Brotherhood of Steel isn't canon for example. Easter eggs such as the special random encounters aren't canon.

About OWB it was a new low point of extreme bad humor that was introduced in the franchise.

Nope it isn't my argument that the whole Fallout franchise is a spoof of 50's SF. My argument is that a DLC who has fun with this element doesn't destroy the franchise.
It's clearly to see from the Trailer, the abduction sequence, the probing, ... and yes Aliens attacking the earth what MZ is. It's maybe not the best joke that was ever made but fitting as DLC in the environment.

So you are perfectly ok that the next installment of Fallout will be a kind of Ghostbusters. (It's a quest not a Easter Egg). To use your argument here. I am not! But I know it won't happen (except someone has again a "hologram" idea *grummel*)

Not sure if my first post was read at all. I don't consider MZ, REAL Ghosts, Scientists that make [censored] jokes, holograms ... as canon and as something that we will see again. But I also don't want the quest designers forced to make boring human development stories. It's a game and no it doesn't have to be serious the whole time and send a warning to the player "be carefull the next thing could be a joke, so don't look at it if you don't like it". Wild Wasteland is the most horrible thing ever imo, only introduced as bad excuse for people without any humor.

Not within the Fallout universe it isn't. Mothership Zeta didn't even give off a humorous tone. Its like they were trying to create this serious alien survival story but failed miserably.