It is an RPG, mate. It's just a quite light-weight RPG, so to speak

You didn't fix anything. You inserted your own opinion and pretended it was a quote of mine and you don't get to do that. For shame.

Good luck USING that power armor if you don't have Fusion Cores! I just don't understand the hate. This game is next level stuff. If you want to play Fallout 3, play it, and even mod it so you can pretend its next gen. I don't know.

But that' s the same in most Fallout games isn't it? It's the case in Fallout 3.

Why is it that every time i post a thread, whether here or in Steam community, that is positive it gets locked out within minutes by moderators, yet they will let flame threads like this go for 100s of posts?

meanwhile those of us coming to forums to look for viable info on the game have to weed through multitudes of these flame threads...

since i cant quote bc the post is lock i will just quote here, this is the best explanation on what type of RPG Fallout 4 is.

"""""You know what ?

I see a lot of people criticizing Fallout 4 saying its not Fallout, or that its not a good RPG although its a good game. But it seems to me that this amount of people while they may have legit arguments, they don't know how to communicate them well, as they are not familiar with specific RPG terms that would allow them to communicate their complains better.

The true problem is that Bethesda since Skyrim have focused on catering to two certain types of Roleplayers, the 'Power Gamer' and the 'Butt Kicker', ignoring / neglecting the other types of role players.

RPGs are close to completing 40 years of existing, and from early on it was observed that there are some certain types of people that played and enjoyed Role Playing Games.

About 95% of the players who will play RPG games, fit in one or more of those player types.

The most popular Role Player types are:

1) The Power Gamer.

This type of player wants to become a god in the game, and enjoys most powering up his character, and spends much time studying the rules and ways a game offers, that will lead him to make an uber-character. He will often look for small windows like exploits for example to achieve his goal, and doesn't care much about story, or playing roles etc.

2) The Butt Kicker.

This type of player just wants to have many fights and be good at them, without necessarily being OP or caring much about the character's powers. He mostly enjoys fighting and wants a lot of good, rewarding fights.

3) The Tactician.

This player likes to spend much time thinking of the best ways, routes, and startegies and tactics to use, to get the wanted result. He enjoys mostly enjoys the game when it gives him enough challenge to strategize, and it responds in a believable / realistic way to his strategy, making him feel smart.

4) The Specialist.

This player wants to enact specific roles, may it be the stealthy assassin, the noble knight, the hard outlaw or whatever. This player mostly enjoys a game that allows him to enact his favorite role / archetype.

5) The Method Actor.

This person wants to express its own self, and usually makes characters after its own. It mostly enjoys a game when it allows him to express his views, tastes etc through options like eg dialogue options.

6) The Story Teller.

This person wants to take part in a good, intriguing story, and mostly enjoys a game that gives an experience similar to a well written book or movie. It is willing to ignore other stuff if the story is good.

Reading about the common player types, you might recognize that you fit in one or two of these types yourself, and also its easier for you to recognize now to whom each different RPG aims for.

Mass Effect is aiming Method Actors most, and Story Tellers a smaller bit. The Witcher mostly is aiming at Story Tellers, with more balanced little bits for the other types of players.

When it comes to Bethesda, it seems that in the past it was trying to make their games have some balance and not to cater to a specific Role Player type, albeit the older Elder Scroll games were more focused to the Specialist players. But with Skyrim a new age started, because Skyrim is obviously mostly catering to the Power Gamer with some attention also for the Butt Kicker, and the Specialist player types, with the attention paid to the Specialist type being less than in previous Elder Scrolls games.

As for Fallout 4, it clearly shifted focus. Fallout 3 was more aiming to the Power Gamer and Method Actor types, but 4 is aiming at the Butt Kicker mostly, and a bit to the Power Gamer. It completely ignores Tactician and Specialist player types.

But this seems to be the direction Bethesda is taking. If Skyrim and Fallout 4 tells us something is that Bethesda seem to focus to the Power Gamer and Butt Kicker player types, reducing the care for other roleplayer types, more and more. If that's a good thing or a bad thing it depends on what type of player you are, really.

Pen and paper / tabletop RPGs, have the additional flexibility of having a GM, which is a real person that can dynamically and instantly change the way the game plays depending on the type of players he has on the group. But a video game doesn't have that flexibility, so it seems that most developers decide and choose a certain type of players to cater to when developing a RPG game.

In my opinion the best thing would be if the games were having a more balanced focus, so as to give each player type a bit of what they enjoy."""""

Doesn't that mostly depend on the sounds/music? For example when you watch the movie "Kelly's Heroes (1970)" and Donald Sutherland - Oddball tank Leader - put on some nice cowboy music right before their tanks enter a german camp through a tunnel, and then they blast 'em to pieces with nice music coming out of loud speakers!

For example Fallout 4 has mostly copied the music from previous game F:NV. Of course if you didn't do the previous you won't notice it, so it is a subject matter. But if you did do the previous, it might be a little tiring to hear how much "she loves you" and "Johnny..", so it reduces the replay value, which is nice, since then you don't have to do it anymore.

"Playable" is purely subjective. If your definition of playable is not being "on rails" and wanting to have nothing to do with the main story arc, it is quite easy to accomplish. See there is that choice thing. Don't do the main quest. Run around until you are max level, all perks, all settlements and never worry about your son again. If the game had no main quest there would be equal [censored]ing. Probably more.

The game is objectively playable in what ever fashion you choose. However, if you choose to ignore the main story (choices here again) you must accept a bit of imaginative hand waving to ignore the story being told in the game. None of the fallout games ever had a complete blank slate that would let you do whatever you wanted. Not even the Sainted Fallout. If you don't want to find the water chip that does not make the game "unplayable".

It's by no means this extreme. In FO3 I managed to completely ignore the main quest for a loooong time cause the side quests were so cool. In FO4 it's being forced down my throat in an entirely different way.

LOL True dat Marty But I'm sure glad that NV wasn't as shallow as that! Not saying that FO 4 is shallow... I still have a lot of things left to do. Skyrim was shallow, but it came with an awesome world to explore.

Then Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind are slasher/shooter games (sword and bow). LOL OK, granted, you start out as a prisoner and can make up your own backstory, but suddenly you are the Nerevarine or the Dragonborn, meaning that there IS a pre-determined background for your character. Oblivion was the only one that just made you "The Hero of Kvatch", where you actually became something bigger than you were and earned a title.

And don't get me wrong, I spend 1000's of hours playing these games, because these games open a huge new world to you and beckon you to enter and write your own story. That is what an RPG is to me. The world can mold my character, it can either make them into a hero or they can despair and loose hope, or they can become raving lunatics who take their anger out on innocent bystanders... the possibilities are endless.

Also, you can totally ignore the main quest and just head off into the wasteland and see what it has to offer. FO 4 lacks in some ways, just as Skyrim did, because I often have the feeling that my actions don't matter. However, there is just so much to see and to do, that this game will rob me off my sleep and keep me busy for a long time. I'm also sure that someone will created a re-balancing mod, like Project Nevada, which, for me, added a huge replay value to an already awesome game (Fallout NV). So, just put aside that you are a grieving widow(er), looking for your son and just head on into the world, because... the wasteland (and all its junk) is beckoning...

Even so, FO 4 is taking up all my free time and I have a blast playing it, the above is pretty accurate (that Beth is catering more to 1 and 2 lately). However, that said, there are plenty of games out there that will satisfy every player. Although, Bethesda's titles have never really taken the player's actions into consideration. In all the ES games, you could join all the factions and everybody was ok that you ran the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood etc. You would think that joining them all would come with huge conflicting interests. Either way, I do think that you can play FO 4 in a number of ways, using a different approach every time, especially since the combat has actually evolved. You do have to be a butt kicker, a tactician and a specialist, if you want to overcome the odds thrown at you. I wouldn't say that the game completely ignores latter two.

If I want to play a game rich with story, I just turn to Dragon Age and get my story teller fix that way (or read a good book lol). Right now, I enjoy being a butt kicker, an explorer and a settlement builder.

Edit: OMG I'm so sleep deprived due to FO 4, I sure hope my ramblings make sense... LOL

"Playable". Hm. I didn't know you would CTD if you did the quest. Or rushed it at the start, triggered post-MQ, and went off to explore the other maybe 3/4 of the game, ignoring the whole MY SON IS GONE thing from then on.

Is it? You ignored my post, so I assume you didn't read it. You directly contradicted yourself on a major point, you don't seem to have played or acknowledged any of the game's more interesting sidequests or unmarked quests at all, so what can you possibly prove?

"Certain mechanics" - WHAT mechanics? Says who? You? Who gave you the authority to define an RPG? Explain your answers. Cite your sources. You made claims; back them up with more than just "I'm right and you're wrong."

I've had... more or less exactly the same experience you describe FO3 as in FO4. I don't see where this is coming from. The sidequests in 4 are amazing, and maybe 10% of my time so far has gone to the main quest at most. All this time and no one has even started nagging me about taking a rad-infused dip in the Glowing Sea like I'm "supposed" to. It's been, what, 160 hours, and I'm only just running out of pre-faction-quest side things to do, and will probably go advance the story just to have an excuse to finish up my magazine collection. What are you all doing, and where are you all going, to make the main quest constantly prod you with reminders? The only time was when Steelbros faction line hit the MQ wall.

In response to the original post;

I came across the following article when I was 20 hours in the game and I found it to be so true and honest account of this game ...... and now that I am 50+ hours in the game and I still find this article to be the most accurate account of F4 and it truly translates or encapsulates my entire experience with this game;

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/11/20/fallout-4-review-bethesda-never-changes/

Why is everyone surprised seriously?, you cant even be a bad guy in this game.

Voiced character and being forced to start as a family man definitely messes with my immersion and desire to create multiple characters. I can dance around the story but when 2 completely different characters (looks, skills, etc.) sound exactly the same then it really ruins the ability to play them as a unique individual.

this game is by far the laziest effort I have seen from Bethesda........totally killed the spirit of Fallout franchise for me.

its so sad that the new generation that hasn't played the original Fallout games will see this game at head of the franchise........even though this game is so far from the Fallout lore and is nothing like the original games.

Very, very fair points. I was amazing disappointed by the ending in so many ways and felt, quite frankly, like I was the person in the wrong, even though I played the game as a veritable paragon. I felt like an ass when all was said and done, that aside from the lack of "wrap up" as to my endeavors across the Commonwealth. I felt "bad" about my character.

The locations you listed ... oh my god ... talk about opportunities just thrown into the trash with no forethought. The possibilities for both are through the roof.

It's a good game and a good Fallout story. It's just not your Fallout story. It's not mine either. It's just a Fallout story.

Sorry OP, too busy playing and planning for modding to bother to read this (ADDIT: must be upwards of 150 hours of play by now . . . not sure I'd have to add up values in last saves for my four characters cause I play in Offline Mode to prevent Steam from mucking about on my machine . . .). But it strikes me as remarkably stupid for anyone to have declared this game to be anything except a masterpiece, and particularly to have proclaimed it as having 'sabotaged' replay given it is less than one month old.

Has ANYONE actually finished the entire game yet? No cheating, no speedplaying, just playing through every single bit of content in the game?!?

No, no one?

Then why is anyone worried about "replay" value yet? Get back to us in six months when a half-dozen or so of us actually HAVE finished the entire game and ask us how replayable it seems to those of us who actually do manage to play everything in it at least once through (yes I'm aspiring to it!).

240 hrs in.

Play / replay working fine so far...

Maybe if all you do is play a game for story.. but Bethesda's TES and Fallout games are much more than just story. There's things to discover all over their worlds. Little interesting things, side quests that have to be found with nothing leading you there, interesting things to look at, hidden creatures to kill. These games are more about exploration and self entertainment, (meaning you get what out of them what you put into them.) Some people need strong narrative, others can just make up narrative in their heads. Sandbox games are much more for people who can make crap up in their heads. Not saying that there can't also be a good story.. but when I pick up a sandbox game I'm excited to play in the sand.. not really follow the story.

To me the factions in Fallout New Vegas were just so well done compared to Fallout 4, but then again Bethesda is making a game that was started by Obsidian lead members. I will say that I am very glad that Bethesda made new factions for Fallout 4 (BoS were closer to the originals and polar opposites of Lyons Brotherhood).

The glaring difference is that in Fallout New Vegas you're the Courier, while in Fallout 4 you're always going to be an ex-military male that was married to Nora and had a child Shaun.. spoilers, spoilers.. that lives pre-war and through some means exits a vault 200 years later (trying to avoid spoilers). Or you could be an ex-lawyer married to Nate with the same exact story as the husband.

Maybe it's me, but I want a story and factions like Fallout 1, 2 or New Vegas. Bethesda seems to always make the same exact story for their games though. In their Fallout games your always a vault dweller looking for your family (that me as the player doesn't even care about).