This is Bethesda's board. You saying I should be able to get invited into your domicile and then insult you, your decorating, your wife and your dog, and then claim that "free speech" entitles me to stay and keep doing it as long as I want?

If you want "free speech" go set up a .wix sight to [censored] about Fallout4 or go to Reddit or whatever . . .

No, I don't think I am going to do that.

For two reasons. The first being that I have explained myself perfectly well already and the second being that you're not interested in an honest debate.

I've given up on writing long paragraphs explaining myself to those kinds of critics. It's pointless, because they're not interested in an honest debate. They're interested in calling my personal experience wrong. If someone has a valid point then I'll acknowledge it. If not, then my original text will have to stand on itself. I will no longer be goaded into a long and pointless debate where I am the only one making arguments while the other person is only interested in deflection and denial.

And with that I have said all that I am going to say in this thread.

Sorry I don't see criticism as an insult and no one should, I see it as a way to go forward.

I don't get all the whining about the dialog wheel being confining. There usually were not that many choices and why can't one of the choices on the wheel be "more choices" and problem solved? (just like in Mass Effect) It's just a different way to draw the choices we've always had, make them into wheels vs lists.

It's Bethesda website, but this is the Fallout series board. You don't need to be a Bethesda fan to discuss Fallout, nor do you need to praise their games at every chance to be a member here (at least not the rules that I agreed to when I joined).

From my understanding when I joined these forums, as long as I follow the rules of their forums and remain constructive (yeah criticism and having a bad opinion is constructive), then I am free to stay and post as I please.

I ain't supporting the guy you replied to either, because in the rules it explains you're not allowed to discuss moderator action/inaction or your own status (warning/ban), but I'm not supporting your response either because it's an obvious straw man argument.

there is always the possibility to make different choices, make different companions, i haven't completed the main story, but i plan to start again once it's finished, to try to do things differently

The difference is that when you're looking for a chip, it's just a chip. It's not personal (except maybe you feel some motivation to find it, to save your vault). Looking for a chip doesn't define your character. You can go forth and do whatever you want.

Looking for your child is a completely personal quest. It defines your character. Your character is always, first and foremost, a parent. You can't go two steps into the Commonwealth without complaining to every NPC you meet that you're looking for your child. (Or choosing the "it's personal" choice, but it's the same thing because you have to acknowledge it at every turn.)

That's the difference between how you setup an open-world RPG and how you setup a linear story-driven shooter.

Fallout 4 still has its RPG elements, but it is starting to lean heavily toward the latter in terms of the player character and the story.

The only person placing greater importance on the child over the chip is you.

Child = single life, selfish motivation

Water chip = multiple lives, selfless motivation

It can very easily define your character.

Says the person who presents "persoanl experience" as fact, refuses to elaborate on points or support statements, and repeatedly fails to address point by point, factual rebuttal.

Well. Have fun "debating" back and forth with yourself, since it seems that's all you're interested in doing.

Can't agree with the article even though I have yet to finish the main quest, and won't re-role until I'm satisfied with what I have explored. That said, I want to replay already with an alternative build and different faction alignment.

Unless you spoke to certain characters, you could avoid the search for your father completely in dialogue. You could ask the Sheriff of Megaton about your father or not. You could ask Moriarty about your father or not. Basically you could ask almost anyone about your father or not. I can′t even get into Diamond City without acknowledging that I am looking for someone. True I′m not specifically stating that it is my son, but still, I′m looking for someone. That my character could be there for completely selfish reasons is impossible. In FO3, my character was the driving part of the story progression. In FO4, the story drives my character.

As long as you avoid the Boston area, more specifically Diamond City, you still can do that. But yes, it definitely is harder to do in FO4.

I doubt the mods here would ban anyone who constructively criticized the game. I have done it myself many times and never got warned for it.

And yes free speech is also criticizing Anthropoid. Criticizing for a better product is perfectly valid, whereas what you are doing, criticizing someone about criticizing the game and being offended is just silly. If you feel that the game is the same as your wife and dog then, as I see it, you have issues. Get over your emotional attachment - no constructive discussion ever was made with it.

Anyway, as a regular game, it's great. As a Beth game and the heir to the fallout series, it utterly disappointed me and many other fans. It shows in the reviews and scores as well. It may have sold a lot of copies during the first days, but it won't sell as much copies as it could have in the next few months, plus it will affect the next title as well. Personally I will not pre-order or buy the next TES/FO until I see how they decided to "streamline" it this time.

Altho, I am having a blast with my first playthrough (as a male) I'll probably only going to make another one as female, and perhaps one where I try, just try, out the settlement building (ugh) Otherwise, I'll be waiting for DLC review and perhaps play'em, time will tell. But it does bother me, that I probably won't play as many playthroughs as the other games in the serie.

It's a shooter with light RPG for me, and I'll treat it as such. Makes it somewhat easier to let go of its downfalls.

Action RPG it is sometimes called, though the only RPG element it has is the http://borderlandsthegame.com/skilltrees/athena.html, that is pretty similar to the F4 version

Except it allows distinctive builds :trollface:

Ah, so many RPG Scholars over here on their endless crusade of what is or what isn't an RPG. Many of these posts will go to the RPG Archives which will be discussed 200 years from now on, "Old is always better" will be their motto.

And yet I'm playing four characters simultaneously and all their experiences are super different and they're doing very different things.

Well, I've run apen and paper RPG campaign since 1985, I started my video game experience with darkstone not too long after and having been RPGing since then and, as usual, I disagree with you and say it completely is a RPG. Its not the one you want or like but it is a RPG. I'd love to say D&D is ot an RPG becuase I think its such a bad one but I'm not so myopic to think its true.

Interesting question. I personally think it has plenty of replay value. You can make different character builds, choose which factions that you side with, and take on encounters in various different ways. There is plenty to do and lots to find in this game. Also, why do some people think that an RPG game must be like KOTOR or TES: Morrowind?

It depends who is playing it. There's enough content to last a long time, depending on who is playing. Not everyone can rack up 250+ hours in the 3 weeks since launch. For some it will absolutely take more than 6 months to explore the whole game. I've got 120+ hours and I know there's a ton left for me to explore. Masterpiece is opinion really. I've never played a game I wouldn't change in some way. So idk how you would define a masterpiece but if it's a game you're 100% happy with and wouldn't change a thing, I've never played a masterpiece

i will agree with you, Fo4 is a great game, improve ALOT over the old games, but is not a Masterpiece. Like Witcher 3 isnt a masterpiece or MGSV isnt either.

Is been year since i have see a game that actually could surprise u.

Incidentally, Morrowind is an RPG with a less robust character system, almost no dialog options for expressing your character's personality, and very few quests where you can make impactful choices or solve in different ways. And it's still a freaking great RPG. Hell, Arena is an RPG, dammit, and that game is only barely more complicated than the Grognak the Barbarian game we can play on our Pipboys. But enough about what is or isn't an RPG. You can't draw blood from a stone.

As for masterpieces, I'd say Chrono Trigger, Mario 64, and A Link to the Past are up there. Morrowind, too, if only for how much of a watershed title it is; almost everything we've come to expect from Bethesda titles was completely new to gaming (and especially console gaming) when Morrowind did it.

That's demonstrably false, it's not even the the dialogue options being limited to 4 at any given time that's the problem.It's the fact that on average you're given one or two words for each option, to essentially guess your way through the conversation, along with fatuity of not being able to return back to previous options or phases of dialogue.

You're given one shot to guess your way through a conversation, with most of the complexity expunged, only for the dialogue to be 'locked' after you talk to many characters.

There's a profusion of examples where you're given four equally intriguing examples, only for you to never be allowed to explore more than one dialogue branch with that NPC.

As I've said before the dialogue system is arguably the worst aspect of Fallout 4, and I've seen many more people disparage (via two polls on these forums) it than praise it.

Not sure how it'll be different than the previous Beth games I've played. I could follow the quest and be The Champion Of Cyrodil, or wander off into the weeds. I could follow the quest and be the Lone Wanderer, or wander off into the weeds. I could follow the quest and be The Dragonborn, or wander off into the weeds.

And in all of those cases, I would play until I felt "done" with the character, since every single game (including FO3 once they added the lv30 cap) let you "max out everything" if you played long enough. They're all open-ended exploration games - you've always had to decide to stop when you wanted to.

The notion of replay value is an odd one, I've played through the original Metal Gear Solid countless times and it's essentially one protracted hallway (or by comparison to Fallout 4 it is).

The notion of replay value is more arbitrary and subjective than people often consider it.

This I can agree with. The ultimate in "replay value" for me was Mega Man: Powered Up. For a PSP remake of the original Mega Man, it's probably the only non-Bethesda game that comes close to the amount of hours I've put in any Elder Scrolls or Fallout games. Three difficulty modes, 10 playable characters, a Challenge Mode with 100 brutally difficult challenges, and to top it all of a fairly robust level editor (and an online community, incidentally my first) kept me in that simple little side-scroller for damn years. Hands down the best Mega Man game, and sadly one of the least played. Closest thing to a sequel got cancelled.

And I often find myself going through Bethesda games over and over with the same overall builds, or picking the same dialog options every time. ("Igor! Fetch me the brain!" is too good to pass up no matter who the character is.)

I haven't had enough time to fall into any routines with Fallout 4 yet, though. I haven't even tried out stealth, or really any of the Agility perks past Gunslinger.